Haven’t had the opportunity to own a moogerfooger pedal yet. I’m a simple effects pedal kind of guy and I’m not sure how much I would use the CV ins/outs. I understand the concept I just don’t like to get carried away for hours trying experiments when I could be making music, this is the same reason I don’t own a modular synth. Obviously, this capability is part of what you are paying for. So my question is, are these pedal worth paying for if you plan to use them in a more conventional “stomp box” style? I’ll ask in another way to clarify: Does the sound quality justify the expense even if they didn’t have the additional CV capabilities?
I think they are and I use mine as standalone devices a lot. However, my suggestion to you would be to start simply, perhaps with just an expression pedal and the moogerfooger of your choice. I think you’ll develop an appreciation for the flexibility that Moog builds in to these units.
…are these pedal worth paying for if you plan to use them in a more conventional “stomp box” style? I’ll ask in another way to clarify: Does the sound quality justify the expense even if they didn’t have the additional CV capabilities?
Part 1: Yes, as stand alone units they do go much further than most other pedals of similar types on the market. Now with that said, you run into limitations of the capabilities that having CV control opens up. A simple example is a EHX Q-tron vs the MOOG Low Pass Filter. The Q-tron has a low pass filter setting, and three others, while the MOOG only does low pass. On the EHX you have a drive up setting (from low to high) and a setting for drive down (high to low) and this works on each filter type. On the MOOG you are limited to only having one filter that drives up. Now, with some fancy CV connections and using an add on unit you can achieve a drive down setting.
However, the Q-tron cannot self oscillate, screech and create a tone of it’s own, it’s an add on effect where you add to the sound of the instrument. MOOGERFOOGERS (in most cases) go a step further and act as a playable tone of your instrument - meaning you can trigger an oscillator to change pitch.
Part 2: The first moogerfooger I bought was the Low pass filter. I played the Q-tron and this side by side to decide. The Q-tron was a little cheaper, and I didn’t even know what CV was. Once I heard the tone comparison I was sold, and have been ever since.
ANALOG WARMTH that is very difficult to achieve via digital - especially once you have been exposed to it.
As Bryan T said, try one with an expression pedal and be the judge. I became hooked quite quickly, and like any good instrument once you know how to play it, it’s simple and rewarding.
yea.
you will will want to get an expression pedal. think of it like a wah if you have the lowpass
then, if the wind blows that way… you may want to do this or that, and add on.. have the 101 envelope follower control the phaser sweep, a LFO controll ign the 101 cut off or resonance or mix to get a vibe effect…
but nothing would force you to.
Matt
Thanks Alien, I think you hit the nail on the head as far as what I was looking for when you said the tone comparison pointed towards the fooger. I understand the differences between digital and analog. I know how CV works but I also know with my limited time and intentions, I probably wouldn’t use it as much as I could… I’m looking for high quality, nice sound effects and weighing the pros and cons of purchasing moog pedals vs other boutique pedals. I’m primarily interested in the Murf, phaser and ring mod and would purchase a CP if I decided to take fuller advantage of CV (and S+H is always fun). I just don’t want to pay $250 or so for a moog ring mod if a copilot android sounds just as good for $130.
I very often run mine in the audio chain so I can adjust the mix amounts when I want a different sound.
Both the Ring Mod and the Delay are great, but if you have non synth instruments, the Frew Box can be very interesting…and these 3 are great if you don’t necessarily want to use the CVs.
THe phaser would probably be righteous as well.
Really, Moog got their reputation from its sound, and with that in mind these pedals surely don’t lack.
Eric
…ring mod and would purchase a CP if I decided to take fuller advantage of CV (and S+H is always fun). I just don’t want to pay $250 or so for a moog ring mod if a copilot android sounds just as good for $130
Things to note, the MOOGS are not true bypass if that matters, and the buffer does color your tone mildly - not badly, it just does… Every Moogerfooger comes with a drive input control, meaning you can overdrive the signal right at the source - and each drive on each unit has it’s own character to boot…
My recommendation is to get the MOOG ring mod, skip the phaser (unless you want 12 stage dual sweep stereo beautifulness) and find something on the used market - set it and forget it style - the MuRF is an island in the effect market.
If you get into CV the low pass is great for having an envelope control, meaning your playing dynamics become CV (like matt said above) and can control anything!
The foogers on their own are incredible, and not even close to one trick ponies. The ring mod is also the most versital tremolo out there. The phaser works great as a lead boost with some filtering on it, or even a ringmod (but different than the mf102). The lowpass makes a great wah with the ep2, tone generator, or eq.
Hello:
I am new to foogers but I just bought a Low Pass Filter. I have not got it yet but it should arrive in a few days, I can’t wait.
That said, why did I get a fooger?
Well, I have a pretty long history of using electronics and synthesizers. I play guitar and keyboards. Mostly jazz and some Celtic on the guitar but I also do experimental/ambient music with synthesizers.
I own an 88 key fully weighted, Korg M3, with Radius and expansion memory. A killer synth.
So what is my point in bringing this up. OK, simple. I have incredible flexiblity on the M3 to make very complex layered sounds. I love it, it sounds incredible. But in the end, its a computer running a program. With the exception of what is called an AMS mixer, which is probably the best attempt on the part of any synth I have seen to partially mimic CVs, it has a fixed configuration. Lot’s of flexiblity mind you, but a fixed configuration.
Now I have toyed with the idea of getting an analogue. In many ways, an analogue has a really big deficit in that you can’t easliy rewire it but as I have said, with a digital you can’t rewire it at all. The exception is in the soft synth world with somethng like Reaktor but that is another story.
Here is what is great about analogue. You can pretty much plug anything into anything. OK, it might scream at you and make sounds the make the neighbors believe that aliens have just landed on their front lawn, but with a bit of planning or experimentation, add both to taste, you can cook of some great sounds that frankly, the computer running a program, aka digital synth, just can’t make.
So why did I order just one fooger?
Well, first, they are not cheap and I don’ have unlimited funds. I would love to have them all and the little mini synth box but I am not rich. The reason I did get them is this. For a long time now, I have been fascinated by early electronic music. Now I don’t mean hip hop, house, techo, euro whatever, take you pick.. I mean old school. Back to the days of the master, Stockhausen. Now Karlheintz did not have a lot but he knew how to experiment and that he did. Even earned himself a cameo on Sargent Perppers for his trouble. Granted, the man has gone a bit of the deep end lately and has isolated himself from the musical world but in his day, what a giant!
So what do I do? I try to explore sound. Music also but the braoder realm of organized sound and another great Varese expressed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQKyYmU2tPg
Now thats old school!
Now keep in mind that Varese did not have foogers or anything resembling modern electronics but his Poeme Electronique sounds more interesting that most of what I hear on the radio and certainly all the inane fooger demos on You Tube.
So a CV is just a voltage, up to 5 I believe but if you don’t have a synth, then an expresion pedal. And if you don’t have one of those than something more fun, a resistance soure.
Check out this:
http://infusionsystems.com/catalog/all_products.php?osCsid=19122afe15b381c9033571702bd564e9
So what are all these things. Anything you want really. Light sensitive controllers (like a theremin), gyros (can you say Wii), magnetic sensors, galvantic skin response sensors and I believe from other sources you can even get something that read brain waves (see Alvin Lucier)
So all of those odd CV inputs that the guitarists look at and saying: “What the bleep are those” can begin to find a world of sound beyond the stardard processed guitar sound.
Are CVs on foogers underutilized? Considering the world of possiblities, I should say so!!
So here is why I bought mine. I love Buchla synths, great synths but you would have to sell a Lexus to pay for one. Well, Buchla synths use these odd little things called Vactols. Here is a classic example using a Buchla complex oscillator:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO5qRyzYZXk
For a complete work listen to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rnIfw-49gA
Morton Subotnick, classic old school EM, lot’s of Buchla and lots and lots of vactrols.
So here is my plan. Get a MIDI to gate convertor. Set up the MIDI to gate convertor to trigger the vactol. The output of the vactrol is the CV for the fooger, the audio in is from the synth. Instant vactrols. Oh, but there is more, there is so much more and the limits are really only imagination. The problem is that bleep and bloops do nicely for new school EM, hip hop, trrance, house, ect… and guitarists are happy with envelop followers.
If interested, and anyone understands what I have posted, let’s talk about experiments in create sounds that no one has heard coming from foogers with strange electrics plugged into those otherwise empty CVs.
Aha! NOW you’re talking, Lux! Don’t forget, also, that hobby motors can be set up as voltage generators. Using a high gear ratio, a clutch, and a lever one could make a very interesting hand pump that controls whatever CV parameter you want. An idea I’ve been tossing around in my head for a while. And while we’re on the topic, Moog gear is up to five, but other companies make stuff that is 1V/Hz, not V/oct, and other companies make gear that has a tolerance up to 10, 12, even 15 volts! So really, the only limits to what controllers you want to use is the amount of money you want to spend on development. EricK has brought up brain wave controllers, but the average DIY’er couldn’t afford the components, even if he COULD build one. Mad props to you for this self-discovery! 
Back in the 70’s when I first started to fool with synths, I spent a LOT of time trying to make my synth sound like other acoustic instruments. With varying sucess.
Then one day when I was trying to get a piano sound out of an Octave Cat, a friend who was a real player in the scene gave me this advice.
“If you want a piano, go play a piano. Use the synthisizer to create those sounds no one has ever heard before.”
I’ve taken it to heart and what I do now is based on sounds that aren’t recreations of other instruments.
For guitar, I have a guitar. For bass, I’ve got a few basses. I’ve got Hammonds, pianos and string machines. I still really love using my synths for the sounds that didn’t exist before I programmed them.
Anyone here ever listen to Edgar Froese? His album Aqua is the sort of stuff I really love.
I also want to add that when you spend a few hours noodling, thats when you are making music. You stumble on a sound or a new patch, just like someone noodling on a guitar of strumming random chords. Its all a part of the process.
None of it is time wasted if you are dealing with creativity.
Yes, and there are a number of ways to control CV’s in a theatrical way…if you’ve got the time, money, and engineering skills it takes to design something. The world of synthesis is not just something that is expressed by sound, it becomes a part of you. I’ve said it before. To become a Mooger is to change your lifestyle. It becomes a part of who you are. When someone asks me what my hobbies are, I say video games, tinkering with electronics, and sound synthesis. I usually have to explain sound synthesis, so I say that last. 
I can’t tell you how much I agree with what you are saying here. While I do have my M3 which does duplicate sounds, and is very effective for layered sounds, it can make new sounds especially with the Radius inside and all my soft synths. Of course, for true sonic mahem and maximum fexiblity there is nothing like analogue which is why I bought a fooger (and probably not my last).
I also spend my time trying to duplicate instrument sounds. I first looked to sampling in my early years and realized that coming up with good sample was an ardous process and in the end, with the exception of a piano or organ, a great deal of expression is going to be lost. Sorry to all the keyboard players who play their fake distorted guitars (and my M3 has a few) but unless you have played a guitar you don’t understand the kinds of expression a guitar player can really get from a guitar.
So then I tried additive synthesis. It also does not work for reasons that are way to complex to explain here.
Then I realized as did you that synthesis should be that, synthesis. Creating new sounds that no one has heard. It seems to me that is the point of it and exactly why I am more a fan of early electronic music. If you even look at early rock you will see how popular a simple sawtooth or square wave with a bit of filtering and portamento was because at that time it was new. Now its a bit cliched and so musicans should look to new sounds.
Sampling lets everyone get stuck into this rut. Most guitar pedals are ruts. Do I live a little chorus or flange on my guitar? Sure. Do I like distortion? Not as much, at times yes, but sometimes it can kill the dyamaics and the natural harmonics of the transient in the guitar which is what is most interesting about it anyway.
While I will use my fooger with a guitar at times, I will probably use it more with a contact mic or to send my samples, hard and soft synths into. Having a filter with a CV opens up an indedible door. If I just wanted to use the pedal and an envelope follower, there are lots of those out there which are a lot cheaper.
One thing I don’t understand is why Moog markets this pedeal in their demos as a big expensive envelope follower. It’s much more than that and that is why I bought one.
Idea, walk around with a portable mic/recorder (there are lots of these out there) or a contact mic, or a shotgun mic, or whatever you need. Record stuff. Run it through a fooger even using other sources as a side chain for the CVs. The record it. This is old school EM. It’s creative and it makes sounds that no one has heard and in my mind, that is the idea.
Agreed. This is how some of the greatest creative works come about. Trying new things, new scales, new instruments, new sounds.
I once bent the circut of a Commodore 64 game paddle to I could either use it for its intended pupose or plug in a photo cell. I even had a swtich on it and a plug in the back. I then used it to control a SID chip on the computer. Lot’s of fun and very creative but also it only cost me about $10 not counting the cost of the soldering iron.
Some electronics are cheap. I am amazed how cheap some stuff is. Complete circuts that all you need to do is wire the connections to some plugs and switches and you have something that would cost a lot more if you bought it with nice plastic wrap and some pictures.
Geez…and here I am thinking a $500 Multipedal would make an awesome controller for a ColecoVision playing Super Breakout! Yes, components have come down in price to the point that the average DIY type can build a CV controller box for less than $50 and control 8 CV parameters. (See my YouTube videos for examples of this). IC’s have come a long way as well, which is what you’re referring to. And photo cells! Good God, the price has dropped on those! 
So really, some very fun CV controllers can be built. Do not let the keyboard limit you! 