First, as background, I use MIDI local off nearly exclusively. Thus, when playing and programming, I depend on MIDI signals going out to my MIDI setup and coming back into the Sub37.
I’ve noticed that with the 1.1.13 firmware, the mixer buttons (OSC1, SUB1, OSC2, etc) and Sync, Loop and Latch buttons under both envelope generators do not work if manually pressed, when the following is in effect:
Sub37 Editor is NOT running and Sub37 is NOT attached to my PC
Global Menu / Local Control / All = OFF
MIDI Menu / Out Filters / KNB NPRN/CC = CC
The buttons do not change when pressing them, but they do change changed when changing patches.
Setting the “KNB NPRN/CC” parameter to “NPRN” causes them to work with all Local Off. I am 99% positive that with the previous firmware (that came with the synth) the buttons worked with All Local Off with the “KNB NPRN/CC” parameter set to “CC,” as it appears from the manual that CC is the default.
I can regularly repeat this issue after cycling power on the synth. Also, I noticed that as soon as I plug the synth into my PC via USB and start the Editor (stand alone), the buttons work fine when the “KNB NPRN/CC” is set to “CC.”
Same here, i can still use the keybord in local off but had to set back the panel in local on
I’m used to route the MIDI with the DAW or with the MIDI interface ( in this case i can switch between MIDI presets without a computer and control a Minitaur or a Nord Rack 2X with the Sub37 Keyboard).
There have never been enough MIDI CCs to assign one to every knob and button. If you want to be really certain that this function used to work when output mode = CC, you can always revert to the v1.1.0 firmware and check. I can check the source code in a bit to confirm this also… but I’m 97% sure that it never worked this way, and that you always needed to have output mode = NRPN in order for every knob and button to send a MIDI message.
Next question: is there any reason why not to just use NRPN output mode in this case? Is there anything about NRPN mode that doesn’t work for you?
Thanks!
Amos
edit: actually, it’s possible that in some version of the firmware, even when in CC mode, the buttons for which there was no CC would just send an NRPN anyway, instead… I could make this the default behavior if it seems like it would help…
Since the Sub 37 has over 150 parameters saved with each sound, it is not possible to assign a standard MIDI CC to every parameter. For complete MIDI output from every panel knob and button, you will need to set the KNB NRPN/CC parameter to NRPN mode.
NOTE: Not every audio production software allows easy editing of NRPN messages, so you may prefer CC output for ease of use.
I can’t understand why i haven’t noticed this before (your explanation could certainly be the reason)
Anyway, it’s ok for me to only switch keyborard local off when playing in “no computer” mode (MIDI interface and expanders) and use NRPN with Ableton Live when in “DAW” mode !
Have to learn about NRPN, not really used to work with
Edit : I understand, i only have to switch KNB NRPN/CC to NRPN in MIDI OUTPUT menu, Thanks !!!
I’m guessing this is what I experienced. I’ve only had my Sub37 for a few months, but until I updated the firmware I had not encountered any problems with the Osc buttons with Local off. (and I had not seen that note in the manual that gian77 pointed out.)
I’m just fine with using NRPN mode – it seems to be working well this way. I just thought since I noticed a change in behavior – one that seemed to impair functionality – it might be something to report.
OK I checked the source code and I found an interesting detail.
There is a piece of code in the CC-sending routine, where indeed if there is no CC number assigned to a given control (and the output mode is CC, not NRPN)… then only if the editor is online the Sub 37 will send the NRPN for that control, as an alternative to sending nothing when there’s no CC assignment.
I could leave it this way… or I could make it so that this was always the behavior… in that case, CC mode would really be “mostly send CCs, but occasionally send an NRPN” mode, versus “send all NRPNs” mode. Not sure if this would be a real improvement or not. Any opinions?
(your explanation could certainly be the reason)
