I am new to the forum and really uneducated about synths- seems like even in the demos on YouTube everyone expects you to underrstand a lot of terms that I dont so I have a couple of questions.
Does Moog sell something that is self oscillating and does not have a keyboard on it-- but that also does not require the use of one to operate and make sounds-- while also being capable of accepting input from my bass piano to create effects for it?
If this is a stupid question please go easy on me. I just don’t want to have two keyboards in my setup and have seen other companies produce synths that just have buttons to create sound so I know it has been done. I want to be able to create synth effects-- while playing the bass piano-- and use the same unit to run the bass through when I want to.
The MoogerFooger MF-107 Freq Box might be the closest thing that meets your description. You can set it to oscillate as a drone by itself, or run a Control Voltage to it and control the pitch (like from a sequencer, LFO, or keyboard) or just have it follow the pitch of another input. Though it can be wild and difficult to tame, once you do, you’ll fall in love with it.
Running a bass piano through it sounds like it would be great fun. Even if you turned down the effects on the unit and only used it for its ‘drive’ circuitry, it would add a lot of character.
That is very helpful- thank you. So could I take that and also run it through other effects boxes by Moog- even the minimoogs to create a sort of mini effects synth?
Alternately you could run your other FX boxes through the Freq Box.
I do this quite a bit myself. I have duplicates and some triplicates of all the MoogerFoogers and I use them like a true modular synthesizer. I can use the Foogers as the originating sound source and then process that sound further, or I start with an external sound source (vocal mic, acoustic/electric instrument, electronic synth, etc) and then process that sound with the Foogers.
That’s great advice indeed. Stephen, I’ve never had the MF-101 (Low Pass Filter) –not even by the time I had a couple of MF-107 (FreqBox) -, but I’ve read a lot that the former could help taming the later. What do you think?
Another option is the MF-108 (ClusterFlux): chorus and flanger can always be interesting with an electric piano, and it’s able to self-oscillate too. Plus is allows for great stereo imaging. May be more limited on the “controlled pitch” aspect but anyway.
Ooh, the fooger that impressed me the most with Rhodes sound is the MF-103 phaser: so… liquid!
The others Foogers… I prefer letting others Mooguys talking here
This is great by the way-- when I ordered the VV I did not know about the MoogerFoogers and thought I may have to buy a whole synth but the Moogerfoogers are just amazing.
No demo, sorry. But I’m sure you can find some on the web.
Foogers are great, that’s right. You an look at other manufacturers too. ElectroHarmonix make cool stompboxes, and some other brands propose some rellay synthy pedals.
In the Fooger vein, check out the Koma Electronik pedals.
One thing about the phaser is that it has a very distinct tone to it. So without a mix knob, it generally imparts its tone to any instrument you process through it. It is its own instrument in this regard. This is a bit different from ading a subtle phased sound to an already great tone. It is more like adding a Rhodes tone to a great phaser.
The EHX small stone is also a wonderful phaser for a Rhodes.
But don’t let me try to dissuade you from the great 103 phaser. It is one of the best sounding I have ever heard. I’ve used it on Rhodes and Wurlitzer and it is fantastic. Its LFO is very slow and if you get into synthesis, that is a major plus. It takes about 3 minutes to cycle at its slowest speeds.
No man any insight at all is appreciated. I am new to all of this so its a bit overwhelming but am starting to get the gist of some of this stuff. I had a Sub 37 for about a month but chose not to keep it. It was amazing sounding but not the right sound for my main instrument and I couldn’t afford both of them at the same time being married and all I have ordered the Vintage Vibes bass piano-- its basically their recreation of the old Rhodes bass pianos. I am not actually looking for something that merely accentuates the VV bass as of yet. I am more looking for something that can take the signal from my bass piano and really tweak it in lots of strange ways-- psychedelic ways even.
I am not very good yet but on my Korg M 50 or the sub 37 while I had it we would get jamming along and then I would start tweaking the synth engine and just get some really cool effects right there during the jam. The problem was that the bass piano setting on the Korg just sounded like it was in a can all the time so I started looking for something else-- took a chance on the sub 37 but it did not fit the bill and now settled on the bass piano. The thing is after having the sub 37 and hearing how weird it could get at the right times I now MUST have that capacity but am hoping to get it without purchasing another keyboard.
I did a sound check with the Korg M50 and the sub 37 set to some smooth bass. The korg sounded better and worse. Better becasue it was a recording of a real electric piano-- worse because it was tweaked with digital synth. What I want is the best of both worlds- I want to send my Rhodes through a synth that can track with the playing note for note and can be adjusted and tweaked in real time-- I am just looking for the right unit.
Thank you. I asked this in the post above but in case you did not read it.
Is there made anywhere a modular synth that can match note for note input from my electric bass piano and mix and color and change the sound in lots of ways? Basically something with the same range as the sub 37-- or else one unit that can do all of the things that all the different effects pedals can do but with LFO and everything else also. Also that is self oscillating so it can be tweaked without having to hit a key on the bass piano?
Those are some very nice pianos. There very well may be some value to buying their Bass piano, vs trying to track down a vintage Rhodes Pianobass. But I don’t know why one would drop the money on their bigger pianos with so many fabulous Rhodes on the vintage market. The maintenance on them has to be virtually identical.
You might want to try a 105m or even see if you can find a Bass Murf on ebay. That thing on the bass sounded excellent, even better than the 103 in my opinion because it was way more subtle, had the mix knob and was programmable. Very vintage…and that was just with a bass guitar. Having those overtones from a properly voiced piano bass will really jive with those filters.
You could have just gone with a vintage Minimoog and would have been done with it. But if a Rhodes bass sound is what you are really looking for, there isn’t anything that is going to come close to that sound and feel. You can approximate a Rhodes with the Voyager, but the only real instrument that rivals the sound of the Rhodes bass is of course, the Wurlitzer. Now if you only wanted to forego the urge to keep it to one keyboard then that will be easier to solve your problem. One keyboard only, you need a Yamaha Motif.
Modular is an entirely different ballgame, but would couple nicely with a workstation like the Motif.
There can be all kinds of problems with old Rhodes pianos form what i gather. I bought the new Bass after reading up on what to look out for when buying a Rhodes (lots of things can be wrong) no big deal for some but for me I just want new and no problems. My bass will arrive in 5 weeks- only so long because they are taking two weeks off to do show of some kind.
As far as the others go I have heard two things-- some people say the VV ones sound better than the original and they are (way lighter) light enough to just take on the road and gig with no problem and that is a huge advantage for some people.
Did not know a minimoog could make the exact sounds I was looking for but oh well its going to be nice having an instrument like the one I am getting.
Will check out the 105m for sure. Moogerfoogers may also do most of what I want-- in fact I saw an in depth review of all of the minifooger pedals chained together and they do almost everything I would want other than play themselves with no input from my bass. and the cost of all of them together is nominal really. I play almost exclusively with my right hand and could be tweaking the controls with my left while playing and get some really strange effects that way.
Yeah that’s what VV wants people to think to justify a $5600 (base price) Rhodes clone in a Wurlitzer body.
Right now theres a Mk 1 stage 73 on the bay for $800 “Buy it Now.” Spend another 1500 on top of that for a complete restoration/regulation and you have a piano that is going to last the rest of your life, or at least another 40 years. I don’t see how there is any advantage or additional value to the VV clone to justify the markup. With the extra 3 grand difference between the two, you can have your entire name rail outfitted with several different preamps and switch or mix between them all. Lastly, I don’t see what can possibly go wrong with a Rhodes that the VV clone won’t suffer from also.
Being lighter is a huge advantage though. The Mark V Rhodes weighs 100lbs.
My father’s '71 suitcase 73 (which is really mine now) cost him 760 or so in 1971. That’s only $4500 in today’s dollars.
I’m not knocking VV. I just love the Rhodes and think it’s a much better value and traditional aesthetic. Maybe another Rhodes enthusiast here will disagree with me regarding the Rhodes maintenance. I would even go so far to say that the same reasoning applies to a Vibanet vs. D6 or to the Wurlitzer clone they are rumored to be working on.
And I’m not sure a Minimoog will do “exactly” what you were after. I don’t know how easy it would be to transition between sci-fi and back to a great bass in a timely fashion, but bass and sci-fi it will surely do.
If you want a note for note match with a modular, then you might want something with a Midi out, or a pitch to midi converter or something like that and then a nice compliment of modules to get the sound you are after.
Just called the guys at sweetwater they are very helpful. The set me up with a possible package that does everything I want it to do (with a mini keyboard) for under 1000 bucks actually more like around 600. Gotta love technology man.
Now I really do get to have the best of both worlds-- second best if you think the VV are not as good as a Rhodes which plenty of people do but still its going to freaking rock man!
A modular is something even different from a pedal set or an integrated synth. If you want something that tracks notes, really give a try to the MF-107 + MF-101 couple -the later is optional. I would add a delay and/or a reverb (let’s say a MF-104M and an EHX Cathedral, total random choice ) and there you go to phsychedelia
A Minimoog wouldn’t have replaced a piano bass. What Eric meant (I guess, huh?) is that timbrewise, you can get closer. But the monophony and general feeling is not the same, I think. No regrets.
Hey man-- you said " really give a try to the MF-107 + MF-101 couple -the later is optional." So I am assuming that the MF 107 tracks notes – what would the MF 101 add to that in your opinion?
Please also answer this. Could this set up you just mentioned make really smoooth synth bass to mix with my Bass piano? I saw a demo on it and it dide not seem all that clear. If it will play synth on key with my bass piano and I can get various kinds of synth bass sounds out of it then it is for sure what I will purchase-- without a doubt. I will look into all of this but just asking. Also are you familiar with the Bass Murph? I ask because I really liked the equalizer? portion of that box. It seemed like it might go really nicely with my piano.
My plan is to be jamming along with just the VV and as the jam progresses I can begin to introduce subtle effects of synth bass with and without growl and then some more psychedelic stuff at the peak of the jam. the possibilities…
No worries man and thanks for clarifying-- I thought you might be getting edgy and was just trying to diffuse things (you know how the internet can be)— even better that I was wrong.
The thing with tine instruments is that they are rich in the fundamental but weakened in upper harmonics, unless you play with strong attack and begin to saturate the pickup mechanism. So filters won’t have much to process.
What works really well are effects that add complex harmonics. These include ring modulators, frequency shifters and wavefolders (and distortion). This is the sound sample that sold me on Moog over 10 years ago:
That sounds great some really simple sounds that are deeply musical and some stuff that could get weird too. Does it play note for note what you are playing into it?
) and there you go to phsychedelia