i’m a total newbie to this forum so I hope you’ll forgive my seemingly never ending ignorance!!!
I’m currently toying with the idea of buying the anniversary voyager and have some little niggles creeping around in what I laughingly call my brain. it might sound a little blinkered, but the real reason I want the voyager is to recreate some of the traditional minimoog lead sounds such as those played by Keith Emerson, Rick Wakeman, Mark Kelly, Ayreon…etc
My question is, does the voyager succeed in creating these lead sounds which were properly done on a model D…in which case, do I start the long trek of rooting out one that hasn’t been beaten to a pulp?!
i have recently acquired an AE Voyager and am delighted with it. It is great for creating the kind of lead sounds that you speak of, and has the added advantage of MIDI and other technological advancements over the Model D.
However, if you insist on having the original machine, look no further than RL Music (http://www.rlmusic.co.uk). They have a fully restored machine available for £1759 and it’s a real beauty.
Just for your info, Mark Kelly used to use a SCi Pro 1 and/or a Yamaha CS15/CS30. I think he did have a minimoog early on but if I remember correctly the lead lines on “Script” and “fugazi” come from one of the above keyboards.
Both these machines are somewhat cheaper then a Voyager.
I own both the Voyager (SE#86) and a Model D and i would always go for the classic over the Voyager as I think the Voyager sounds too clean (calm down everyone, just my opinion).
Mark did use the pro1 on a couple of tracks on the albums you mentioned - script itself and also on the title track of fugazi (very prominent at the end of the track). However - every other lead was definately done on a modified model D…he knows you know, the web, garden party (totally unmistakeable), forgotten sons, assassing, punch and judy, she chameleon, incubus…very definate mm sounds especially when played live.
Quote from the bloke himself just before they wrote grendel;
“I tried to get as modern a sound as possible. I did away with all my old mono synths. But then I thought, `What’s the point? If I like the sound of the Minimoog, why not get one?’ So I went out and bought a second-hand Minimoog. I’ve got a good balance now. I’m using a lot of digital stuff, but I’ll put in a few lead lines on the Minimoog, whose sound is instantly recognizable.”
I think the last time a mm appeared with mark was on clutching at straws very very briefly (sad loss really!!), seems they chucked it out with the fish!
Mal - I think i have to agree…I’m now definately swaying towards a genuine old model D, they’re what I fell in love with so that’s my goal I think. Thanks for swaying the balance
Why is suddenly everbody complaining about this design mistake / error ?
Come on, how many times do you really depend on this single feature?
And why did it take more then two years to become widly known if it is really that important to so many Voyager users right now. This reminds me very much on the Waldorf MW II / XT bug that will sometimes make a click when playing in unison mono mode. But on the other hand there are way more bugs in many widly known synth that no one except for a few beta testers ever encountered. Or did one ever blame Yamaha that you are able to trigger 8 voices at a time you holding with your left hand while triggering a note with your right (and these note will not be played) on a CS80 ?
The Voyager is the best performing synth that is available new. And although I own a real Minimood in perfect condition I use the Voyager more often due to its Patch memory and more modulation possibilities. I did some factory sound for different Waldorf synths. But I haven’t yet stumbled over the filter not gliding as the oscillators (like on most DSP synths I know). And rememebr: the Voyger never claimed to be a 1:1 copy of the Minimoog. Otherwise it wouldn’t feature such things like two VCFs.
Regarding Mark Kelly, he did indeed have a Minimoog in the early days of Marillion. It is mentioned in his instrument list, on the sleeve notes for “Script for a Jester’s Tear”. If you haven’t listened to any of their material for a while, check out their new album, “Marbles”.
I am one of those people that lost interest in Marillion after Fish left but still I buy the albums knowing that i was dissapointed with the last one . . . hoping for the odd glimmer of Mark Kelly’s former glory - everytime dissapointed.
What ever happen to Marks keyboard prowess? He is now just a bit player with his keyboard skills used to pad out the sound . . whatever happened to those great “Wakemanesque” solos and the intricate Irish arpegios?
Mark, if you are reading this . . lets have a return to form, it has been said that prog rock is on the come back so how about it?
Yes, I know what you mean about Mark Kelly seemingly being sidelined. I think it comes down to the fact that the band’s musical style has moved on (they are still very much a rock band, but there are many influences in their music these days, not just prog) and with it, Mark’s role. Having said that, he is an ace soloist, and it would be great to hear him strutting his stuff again.
I still feel you should check out Marbles, though; especially the double CD version, which features the epic length (18mins) “Ocean Cloud” - a masterpiece which features some truly beautiful keyboard timbres.
As you can probably see, I am definitely still a fan, though hopefully not too biased!
I bought the single CD version of Marbles . . . played it once . . . it just sounds like the last million other albums they have produced. Good on them for going it alone and all the self financing thing but for me the music just doesn’t stand up to it.
Fair play. I guess it’s just a matter of taste, really. You obviously prefer the Fish era, and I also still admire the early stuff. The first time I heard the opening bars of Script, I was a fan - brilliant.
For me it has nothing to do with Fish . . . I have never been into vocals but just take Fish out of the mix and the music was great . . . in comes Steve Hog, whatever and the underlying music just went all limp (is it me?).
Fish’s first few albums where great, and you could see where the Marillion sound came from as his solo stuff had all the great keyboard lines in it.
So there you have it! . . . one more entry in a diary self penned.
You’re an island, but I can’t leave you all out at sea…
Sorry - couldn’t resist it!
Mal, I don’t think it is you, I think it is them. They have changed in a way that doesn’t appeal to you. It’s a shame, but there you go.
I think the reason they have changed is two-fold:
Firstly, Fish was a very political and angry young man in many ways. Fugazi - both album and song - are full of anger (Steve Hogarth has said he could never tackle this material live, as he can’t begin to relate to it). Given this, it is interesting that you say you’re not into vocals, and consider that even without Fish in the mix, the music is still good, as I feel the nature of the music is directly influenced by his personality. Mr Hogarth is a more spiritual individual, and again, the music complements this and has become less ‘hard’, perhaps - I certainly wouldn’t call it ‘limp’!
Secondly, as you know, there was great animosity on both sides when Fish departed, and the band wanted to make a complete break from his influence.
As I have said, it really comes down to a matter of taste (I’m not suggesting yours is bad - you like Marillion, so it can’t be ) and the Hogarth era isn’t for you.
Just as a matter of interest, what do you think of Brave?
Actually, I just put it on, first time in 9 or so years . . . too down for me, and I don’t mean that in lyrical subject matter . . . just in Steve’s moaning voice timbres . . . and every song sounds the same . . and the funny thing is his voice just sounds to me like Gabriel on a bad day which is kinda funny given that they were always accused of ripping off early genesis!
Now, I just stuck on ‘Holidays in Eden’ and it strikes me that it’s a good album (to me anyway). I know the songs where probably written before Steves entrance but the whole album has an energy lost in the later Hogarth Marillion.
One other thing that strikes me is that the balance of instruments on ‘eden’ is better as you still have Mark doing his keyboard things . . . still a lot less then Fish’s time but you can actually hear the keyboards clearly and Rothery hasn’t yet turned into “It’s now my time and I have to play everything” guitar hero.
The other thing that I thought is maybe Mark lost his keyboard skills in parallel to losing his hair!
As far as Mark Kelly being a keyboard hero (which he was to me many years ago) he’s way back of the list which is a shame . . . Jordan Rudess can still solo without locks!
hi all - i have to say (and will probably get shot for it), i like both fish and hogarth eras for different reasons…listen to grendel, market square heroes and script/fugazi for the mm lines, but then again - probably one of my favourite tracks for feeling and depth is Easter…as you say, it’s all down to taste and personal preference - it would be boring if we all liked the same thing.
I’m amazed noone has made any comment about Ayreon as yet - just for sheer volume of mm (and arp) usage - out of interest, Fish appears on one of his albums I believe, though I’d recommend listening to either fate of a dreamer or the human equation…if nothing else just from weirdness!
As for the filter portamento problem…i’d already made my mind up to go the model d line. It’s true that no synth has been truly perfect in it’s os, although for the price and the mass of developement experience, you’d think this would have been in the early drawing board requirements.
This gets more and more interesting as it goes along, as you now say you actually like Holidays in Eden. Many people felt Marillion sold out with this album, and it is certainly their most commercial. However, the reason for this was pressure from EMI for the band to go in this direction (quite some irony, when you consider how little publicity the record label provided for three singles, which could and, indeed, should have charted much higher).
After this debacle the band decided to react with a return to the concept album, and Brave was the result. To me, it is their most complete album, and whenever I’m asked to name my favourite, it is always this one from the Hogarth era, and Script from the Fish era. I guess it’s that matter of taste, yet again!
With regard to the songs on Holidays, they were, in fact, all written by Steve Hogarth, with additional work by John Helmer, as opposed to already being there, prior to him joining the band.
Marillion always say that all their new albums are a reaction to the previous one, so let’s hope for some more extensive keyboard work from Mark on number fourteen.
And caliburn, these days you can get shot for admitting that you like Marillion, let alone both eras! Sod the unbelievers, that’s what I say.
You sound like you are well into it . . . my points always come from a keyboard point of view, I don’t know, or care what album did better then another as my interest in Marillion came squarely from Marks great playing . . with that gone there wasn’t /isn’t much to keep me listening.
If the music had continued in a similar fashion after Fish left i would still have been into it, for me it had little to do with the singer but in my humble opinion the sound changed, got soft and more pop and lost all the prog rock sound (which was probably a good thing in the early nineties).
I listened to Brave and Holidays in Eden last night again and coming into it after 10 years of not hearing it I enjoyed Holidays in Eden better, probably because it is more commercial sounding . . . Brave just made me want to kill myself (or at least go directly to sleep!).
I went through the same thing with Rush some years ago . . . the last 10 albums have sounded bland to me . . . when I think about it, it’s down to the fact that keyboards have not featured very heavily since the late 80’s in these bands and I guess I bore quickly of guitar bands?
As this is a moog forum . . long live Keith and Rick for sticking with it and long live Script, Fugazi, misplaced childhood and even clutching at straws!
Mal
(you’ll have to prize my model D from my cold dead hands)
Yes, okay it is a Voyager Forum, so that being the case, has anyone heard any comments by Wendy Carlos on said machine? It would be great if she produced a collection of sounds for it.
Also, does anyone have the Ultimate Collection, by ELP? I’m familiar with very little of their work, ie. Fanfare for the Common Man, and… that’s about it, apart from I Believe in Father Christmas, by Greg Lake. I like both of these and would like to hear more, so is this album a worthy introduction?
) and the Hogarth era isn’t for you.