crisis and the synthland

The Moog Forum Moog Music General Topics Forum
1

I was wondering, with all that crisis taking place in the economy and jobs,
about the fate and the future of many analog synth makers of today.

To ellaborate in this,
the last ten (or so) years we have a situation were a LOT:) of companies make modular or analog synth equipment.
Thankfully, as many people say, we’ve never had it better with so many good products these days, and so the miserable (for analog synthesis) days of the early 90’s are a distant (bad) dream.

While in the early 90’s in many places of the world (U.K. and U.S. mostly) was possible for anyone to find an analog synth for a very small price,
that could be a unit from the 70’s or early 80’s, in unkonwn condition, with no support from a (maybe closed down) company and stuff like that, and in general, OLD analog synths were (and still are) on the collectable/rare/exotic side.

As I said, thankfully, this situation changed as many people started to make analog synths again,
(as you all know:)) and nowdays we ‘re all able to go to shop (or order via net) and buy an analog synth of any kind, and havin’ support, upgrades etc, from alive and healthy companies.

But in these days, where the world economy havin’ lots of troubles, I’m worrying about the analog synth market: let’s face it, these products, -because of the technology they use and the quality they require, are not in the “mass market” side -they 're rather in the "expensive/exotic/special"one, I’m afraid.
(-unlike digital Casios or Yamahas for example, that they are sold in department stores - please don’t get me wrong, is not that I hate arranger keyboards- it’s just that they aren’t my cup of tea:) anyway.)

Well, let’s hope that the whole world will not continues to face bad days in general,
and speaking about synths, let’s hope that we will not having a situation like the mid 80’s, where a lot of analog synth makers were crashing down because of similar reasons. (and because of the DX7 - O.K., I’m joking now, but it’s true:D)
Back then, the Japan giants (Roland/Korg/Yamaha) were able to survive and in a possible break-down of the market, I think they will able to survive now too, because of their size, investiments etc. -and as you know, the “big 3” are NOT making analog equipment anymore, so they’re not in the “risky/exotic” side.

Besides, it’s more costly for a company to produce an GOOD analog synth than to make an digital one, -although funnily, analog electronics can be explored more easily by the DIY people, as it’s not possible for anyone to write code, burn chips and produce SMT boards.
(Maybe I’m wrong in this, so correct me if it’s required:))

I hope I’m not tiring you, thanks for reading, I just wanted to share my thoughs with you all,
and as well, sorry for my poor english:).

well, what you think? opinions please:)
Nikos

2

It seems to me like the best thing for the individual is to hope for another mass analogue synth trade in like one saw in the 80’s. Lets hope that this technology comes out or that the fad changes back to something like Software synths.

I think with the fact that computers are indespensible parts of our lives now, and the availabillity of inexpensive programs that create great sounding music (most people can’t tell the difference between a real synth vs a plugin), that everyone will dump their analogue synths and trade them for cheap and super powerful computers.

This will mean that the market fr synths will tank, and unfortunately some dealers or manufacturers will tank. THen we will be able to see an era where people are no longer getting raped on ebay for a busted up, keyboardless minimoog panel, or a barely working prodigy.

So yes,everyone…move away from analogue. :laughing:

No i realize thats totally selfish, but a lot of people here probably loved paying sub prime prices for peoples scrapped Moogs. It could very well happen again with the state of the world economy.

If we could just have the best of both worlds…a massive abandonment of analogue while we still have the same number of companies stay in business.


No im halfway kidding, I don’t want to see people abandon analogue cause it will hurt our brother manufacturers, but I would like to see the prices drop.

WHen you compare the price of a voyager with other things…jeez you can get a huge tractor or a jacuzzi or something like that. Guns and synths are insanely expansive compared to other appliances. One could have a huge refridgerator and a washer/dryer for the price of a voyager. Add a slew of Moogerfoogers to the mix and were talking that someone could own a few very cheap automobiles lol.

You ever look at it like that? GO to sears and compare stuff there…

Eric

3

Yes, I think that too, that many would benefit from a situation as “analog out of fashion again” but if you ask me, I’m happy that so many good companies are around and support their products. (although I don’t think I will ever have the financial potential to buy a Serge modular for example)
I know that many reasons contributes in that analog are more pricey than digital -materials, front panel controls, fabrication etc.
Sure digital technology with lcd’s, memories, menus etc by it’s nature made products more cheap but we that love analog, we are prepare to pay about it :slight_smile:
I don’t know, it’s a kind of mentallity that says that “a good thing is always an expensive one!” and maybe we are used to it :unamused:

I use soft synths too, but mainly for sampled sounds or digital (call me ppg wave :smiley: ) colours. No matter how hard they try, virtual analogs are good in many areas of emulation…but you know they are virtual :smiley: :smiley:
Think about it, if scientists try to make virtual you for example, no matter how hard they would try or what A.I. technologies they would use, no way to make an 100% perfect human android. -the same applies in analog synths :smiling_imp: :slight_smile: :unamused:

4

I look at it a bit different I guess.

The same thing has happened multiple times already (Analog vs. Digital). There is no reason this time it will end any different.

When it was graphic design, people said doing it by hand was what you needed to know. Now it would be hard to find someone who doesn’t use a computer. Camera and film lovers told us they would never switch to digital and now that digital is high enough quality, most of those same people have digital cameras now. Even libraries are starting to go digital with books. Promoters are spreading digital fliers on social networking sites.

I think audio is lagging, but the change is almost here. At some point, the sound will be equal or better in the digital realm. It is so close I can taste it, but not yet there in my opinion. Then my analog stuff will be worthless and costly to keep because of the space it takes up and the maintenance it requires. Companies are already making the computer appeal to us gear heads by adding many interfaces with lots of interactivity.

All that being said, I think the market for Analog, Moog Synthesizers, custom pedals and electronics DIY is far from dead. I think it has room to grow actually. There is something in these boxes that people enjoy, and all the virtual gear in the world pales in comparison. It isn’t sound quality, it is the tangibility of the equipment and the fact that it takes voltage and creates/affects sound waves. Just like people buying albums still even though MP3’s are cheap and a thousand digital tracks won’t break your back to carry. It still doesn’t have grooves or large printed album art.

My point: I think the people that love cutting and pasting up designs, film, books and printed fliers will continue to do all of that despite the way everyone else went. The niche is already been carved out and it is growing as people are introduced to these things we love. That is also why it is so expensive. When you are making low quantities of products they will nearly always be more expensive per unit.

5

As it stands now, believe it or not, Moog is a low volume manufacturer. They fill a niche market of hobbyists, musicians, producers, and analog enthusiasts. Other companies meet the needs of modular enthusiasts. Paia meets the needs of DIY analog modular enthusiasts. Same with the Voice Of Saturn people. So as long as there is a niche to fill, these companies will thrive. I believe Moog, especially, will be around for a very long time. :wink:

6

I think the previous analog plight had a a lot to do with the fact that not only were most digital synth cheaper but it was new and exciting. I think analog is definately on an up swing right now, all though not the main synth medium its still doing pretty good. You can’t look at a pic of some pro studio and not see a voyager. And many avant garde bands are going back to using modulars.

As much as I would like to see prices of analog drop, I don’t want it to be because they all go out of business.

7

we need more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsJCT4UGpwo&feature=related
HA ! :slight_smile:

8

Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6y1htz6jGE I’d rather see more of this. Just my opinion. :wink:

9

I love digital and I like a lot of plug ins, the thing for me is that no matter how great a minimoog may run as a computer model, it will never replace the experience of sitting with a musical instrument and connecting with the sound, turning the knobs, and taking that journey into sound. I have synths running on my Nord G2 that are very accurate emulations of old synths… And while that particular keybard has an amazing interface for programming and interacting with the sound, it’s still not the same as playing a Voyager, or messing with a CP-251.

10

Sorry, I realized that I got a bit off topic with that last post. I would like to see companies like Moog flourish, in spite of the economic turmoil in the world today.

I read earlier about the big three not taking chances… I would disagree with that statement for the following:

Yamaha: the Tenori-on. I still don’t know what the deal is with that thing, but at least it’s something unique. Their FS1r was DEADLY too… but that was ten years ago.

Roland: V-synth, and most recently, the V-Piano. That piano is gonna be like 8 grand, because it uses something like four Fantom-G engines. And a Fantom-G has some pretty serious firepower even though the sound set hasn’t changed much. But the V-Synth is insane!

Korg: The Oaysis. They released a synth that cost about ten grand Canadian when it first came out. They promoted the shit out of it, and have offfered a ton of great upgrades. That is an amazing machine once you understand what it does and what it can offer. BUT… I don’t know anyone who could afford one. Now they’re discontinued, and they’re being ‘blown out’ for 5 grand.

I have to applaud these companies for taking bold steps. Of course, I would want Moog to take chances too, but not at the expense of their ability to operate. I’m sure their margin of error is waaaay less than with the big three.

11

We have at least 1 forum member here that sports an oaysis.

You have described Moog as a boutique company. I disagree. (Ive said this a few times here) I think boutique companies make products that noone else wants to make and therefore are unique.

Moog’s history is being an industry leader that other companies try to emulate.

Maybe the first RA Moog theremins were boutique instruments, but I don’t think that there woudl be half of the synth programs and compnaies if it weren’t for Bob’s innovations.

THe Minimoog kicked the doors down and defined what the future was going to be like.

12

Allow me to put on my flame retardant suit…

What’s so wrong with being a boutique company? They usually have nicer design, higher quality products, great support and rabid fans…

As far as Moog goes I’d have to disagree with you on this. The Minimoog was 30+ years ago and the future has changed. The industry has moved on to other things…namely software and digital hardware.

Moog makes unique products no one else wants to make…theremins, big expensive wood encased monosynths and $700 delay pedals. The last innovation from Moog would be the guitar and that’s a super expensive boutique item if I ever saw one.

Moog has history behind it’s name and they excel at what they do but I wouldn’t say they were an industry leader unless you’re talking about the boutique hand made analog monosynth industry. Like I said above though…that’s not a bad thing.

13

They only make a thousand or so ring mods a year. That’s definitely low volume, if not BOUTIQUE. :wink: