Can a Sub 37 sound like this..?

The Moog Forum Subsequent 37 & Subsequent 25
1

Thinking of picking up a Moog Sub 37. My local store doesn’t keep them in (but can order me one). I’ve listened to most if not all of the on-line demos - my remaining concern is that to my ears it sounds a little ‘glassy’ (subjective, I know).

I’ve little interest, initially at least, in the overdriven, exotic filter manipulations which a lot of the demo’s seem to feature but I’m curious to know if the Sub 37’s oscillators and filter can sound like this:

https://soundcloud.com/le-bouch/model-d

This sound is taken from a 1978 recording and was played by a Model D.
Now, I know that the Sub is NOT a Model D - I’m not expecting that - but I am curious nonetheless as to just how warm(?) the his res, low note filter sounds on the Sub 37 are..

If any Sub 37 owners can chime in, I’d be really grateful.

2

Please make the link available to download or send me the example and I will do my best - fun to try :smiley:

3

http://www.soundcloud-download.com/ ?

4

Hi there. I’ve enabled the download button now :blush:

5

Well, that’s sure is a fun sound to hear with heaphones!

Q: Can a Sub37 get this sound?
A: Yes/No (you choose)

The Model D filter truly is something special which other filters try to emulate. OTOH: The Sub37 has four different slopes, and a very similar architecture. With the Sub37 you can most certainly create massive filter-sweep tones and sounds with which to amaze your friends! But if you need that exact something special we “clearly hear” in this well-recorded, isolated track, with no troublesome music/mix/arrangement to clutter our opinions, you might need a Model D. :laughing:

Choose wisely, and be happy forever. Good luck.

6

Ha. Yes, all valid points.

In a mix, trying to achieve ‘that sound’, you could use pretty much any old va plugin and get away with it. For me though, part of the joy of analogue is sitting noodling and revelling in the subtlety of the sound, solo, or at least ‘featured’ rather than just ‘in the mix’. But not everyone’s me :laughing:

I certainly don’t need a Model D in my life again, and certainly not at the £4k+ prices they fetch these days. That clip I posted conveys a sound I just love and was hopeful that a modern Moog could get there.

7

here is a very quick and casual attempt to get a similar sound.

First thing I notice is that the original is almost surely a 3-oscillator sound; I don’t think it’s possible to get that much phasing motion in the sound (without fx) otherwise. So, the Sub 37 only having 2 fully-independent oscillators cannot get as phasey a sound unless you add some fx. Beyond that though, the filter can almost certainly get very, very close… there are infinite subtle variations possible in mixer level, drive level, resonance level, all of which will make subtle changes in the total sound.

anyway here’s a sweep or two :slight_smile:

http://seamslikereality.com/audio/model_37_sweeps.wav

8

Here’s an attempt from me. Not the best and both tries sound very similar to each other. The Sub37 could surely come alot closer to the tone of the Model D in the hands of a more skilled synthesist and perhaps some extra processing in the chain. My filter sweep is a little jerky too - I probably should have programmed it rather than going by hand. The original Model D clip sounds like it was miked up live in a room perhaps. Yeah yeah excuses… :blush:

https://soundcloud.com/screentanned/sub1-97-audio-sub1

Anyone else fancy a punt? :slight_smile:

9

I’m new to this, so be kind:

Could the Minitaur used as a third (and fourth) osc, driven through midi, coming back on Audio IN of the Sub 37, to obtain that phasing?

What should be configured midi-wize?

Thanks,

Greg

10

Sounds like it could be worth a try! I think you just connect Sub37’s midi output to Minitaur midi input - with each set to transmit or recieve on channel one. Look forwards to hear the result of this. :wink:

11

Yes, any synth can be used this way (I use a Werkstatt):

  • Connect MIDI OUT of 37 to Synth
  • Connect Audio out of Synth to Ext IN of 37
  • Use Ext/FB Mixer knob on 37 to add in the Synth

NOTE: I turn up the filter all the way on the Werkstatt and set all modulation off to get pure oscillator out. This gives me a nice 3-Osc sound in the Sub 37: https://soundcloud.com/mmarsh/3oscdemo.

12

Wow. That third oscillator makes all the difference doesn’t it?

13

:smiley: yes, it does! And the Werkstatt’s oscillator sounds really good. I’m spoiled now, so much so that I gladly give up the awesome feedback feature.

14

I’ve just been researching the Werkstatt some more. I can follow instructions and solder but have no skills beyond that. Building the actual kit looks easy but are there any idiots guides to adding a midi in to it?

15

You could always fake a 3rd osc with some gentle waveform modulation on one of the oscillators. Doesnt really sound that much like a 3rd osc though

16

It’s a good solution to fatten things up for sure. If you listen to the demo, I’ve detuned each oscillator just a bit. Still, the third oscillator makes a big difference!

17

My exact thoughts: where is the MIDI IN on the Werkstatt? I suppose somehow it must be added. But there, (MIDI) I’m lost.

Any help most welcome,

Greg

18

Here’s what I found: https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1617

A bit beyond my skills though. I would pay someone to do this for me :wink:

19

While not difficult, adding MIDI is not really a beginners thing. I used this: http://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=MINIcv and didn’t even hook up the Gate (yet).

As an alternative, for about the same price you can get a MicroBrute with MIDI built in and it is a great little synth on its own.

20

Yep! Either the Micro or Minibrute are a nice compliment to the Sub37. I have just been playing around with using the Minibrute as a 3rd Oscillator to the 37 and it works very nicely indeed - definitely adds that extra phasing which was missing from the 2 OSC tone. :wink: