# Big Briar vs. Moog Moogerfoogers
**URL:** https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062
**Category:** Moogerfooger Forum
**Created:** [March 20, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062 "2012-03-20T18:39:31Z")
**Posts on this page:** 10
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@77jordan](https://forum.moogmusic.com/u/77jordan)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062/1 "2012-03-20T18:39:31Z")
Maybe I’m opening a can of worms but does anyone have experience with both the Big Briar and Moog Moogerfoogers?
I’ve read on the Internet that the Bigb Briars are better built especially in the knob area (specifically the cp-251) and that the BB has more high end on the phaser.
Can anyone validate these claims or have any other quality difference comments?
Thanks
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### Author:  [@Just\_Me](https://forum.moogmusic.com/u/Just_Me)
#### Post date: [March 21, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062/2 "2012-03-21T00:36:24Z")
The later cp-251’s are better for me. They have attenuverters. The red nut units do not.
I find no difference between them other than the color of the stain on the cheek blocks and the logos. The phasers sound the same to me. (I have one of each.)
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### Author:  [@aen](https://forum.moogmusic.com/u/aen)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062/3 "2012-03-25T17:30:36Z")
Here’s a little story about gear people.
Company A makes widgets. They make a lot of widgets. They have a lot of Widgets that say Company A.
Then, imagine company A changes their name to Company B. They rebrand the widgets in the warehouse with a COmpany B logo.
There will be a contingent of gear heads who will swear up and down that the old widgets are way better.
YOU KNOW ITS TRUEEEEEE!!!
😆
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### Author:  [@77jordan](https://forum.moogmusic.com/u/77jordan)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062/4 "2012-03-27T02:21:51Z")
Do you mean attenuators? It looks like from the pictures that the red nut versions did have attenuators.
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### Author:  [@jeepo](https://forum.moogmusic.com/u/jeepo)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062/5 "2012-03-27T04:13:47Z")
> [@77jordan](#):
>
> Do you mean attenuators? It looks like from the pictures that the red nut versions did have attenuators.
They have attenuators but they don’t invert the voltage. The newer ones can also be used to invert as well as attenuate,
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### Author:  [@bobajob](https://forum.moogmusic.com/u/bobajob)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2025, 12:27pm UTC](https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062/6 "2025-04-15T12:27:37Z")
How do you tell the difference between a newer one that can invert the voltage and an older one just by visually inspecting it?
Thanks
The ones with the red nuts are described as having the ability to invert voltages:
[https://www.vintagesynth.com/moog/cp-251-control-processor#:~:text=The%20CP-251%20has%20four,inverting%20an%20non-inverting%20outputs](https://www.vintagesynth.com/moog/cp-251-control-processor#:~:text=The%20CP%2D251%20has%20four,inverting%20an%20non%2Dinverting%20outputs).
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### Author:  [@stiiiiiiive](https://forum.moogmusic.com/u/stiiiiiiive)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2025, 9:09pm UTC](https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062/7 "2025-04-15T21:09:34Z")
The VSE page is kind of confusing.
> [@The VSE page](#):
>
> The CP-251 has four Inputs for up to four control voltages (two may be from expressions pedals) which can be sent to as many as three destinations. Controls include input attenuators, master gain and offset levels. Both inverting an non-inverting outputs. A Lag Processor limits the rate of change per control signal from as fast as one volt per millisecond
You should read that:
> The CP-251 \> mixer section \> has 4 inputs and \> 2 \> destinations. […]
> Mixer \> controls include input attenuators, master gain and offset levels.
> The Mixer has two outputs, one of which is inverting the resulting signal\> .
As a conclusion, this part here does not relate to attenuators vs attenuverters as discussed earlier. Attenuators/attenuveters are located in the two rightmost columns of knob/jacks.
On red/black nut units, the knobs are graduated from 0 to 10: attenuators.
On white ring units, the knobs are graduated from -5 to +5: attenuverters.
On both type of units, the sections are labelled “Attenuators” though.
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### Author:  [@stiiiiiiive](https://forum.moogmusic.com/u/stiiiiiiive)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2025, 9:11pm UTC](https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062/8 "2025-04-15T21:11:36Z")
> [@Rob\_Smith](#):
>
> There will be a contingent of gear heads who will swear up and down that the old widgets are way better.
>
> YOU KNOW ITS TRUEEEEEE!!!
> 😆
It certainly is 😃
That being said, I’ve heard that Big Briars units were built with through-hole components whereas MoogMusic ones were built with surface mount components. Is that correct? (Not saying that THC sound better, heh? 😉 )
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### Author:  [@MC1](https://forum.moogmusic.com/u/MC1)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2025, 4:59am UTC](https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062/9 "2025-04-19T04:59:47Z")
The VSE website has a LOT of errors.
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### Author:  [@till](https://forum.moogmusic.com/u/till)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2025, 10:53am UTC](https://forum.moogmusic.com/t/big-briar-vs-moog-moogerfoogers/11062/10 "2025-04-20T10:53:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> …
> That being said, I’ve heard that Big Briars units were built with through-hole components whereas MoogMusic ones were built with surface mount components. Is that correct? (Not saying that THC sound better, heh? 😉 )
My MF-102 Ring Mod, my MF-103 Phaser and my MF-104Z are all THC.
Only my MF-105 Turf is SMD.