Hi folks. I’ve recently bought a Stage II and a CP 251, and I’m wanting to be able to run old-style analog sequences through them, a la Tangerine Dream. Ideally I want the abilities to:
Change pitch of individual notes via knobs
Change the length (number of notes) of a sequence e.g. from a 16 note sequence to a 12 note sequence while the sequence is running
Have CV out to run the LPs filters etc
Have MIDI out to record the sequence on a DAW or run other MIDI synths.
What would people suggest? I rather liked the look of the Doepfer MAQ 16/3, but the nice people at Doepfer say that as the 16/3 only outputs between 0 and +5V it will only control that range of the Little Phatty. Given that the LP has the following voltage specs:
Pitch CV -5 to +5V
Filter CV -5 to +5V
Volume CV 0 to +5V
Keyboard gate +5V trigger
What would that mean?
Are there other alternative machines that aren’t horribly expensive that would do a similar job?
Many many thanks in advance from a rather over-keen newbie!
Sequencers have the features they have, that may or may not fit your own exact criteria. You got to study them and choose the one that fits you best. So asking around it a good thing.
Don’t be too concerned about the voltage specifications for now. It is the norm for CV devices (expression pedals, sequencers) to output 0 to 5 volts (for a 5 octave range, greater than most synth keyboards). This is added to a (possibly negative) voltage offset (the base note) in the synth for a 9+ octaves total range. Besides, CV range will not matter if you choose a midi only sequencer.
Similarly, in the Moog CV world, all CV inputs with a red jack and white labels on foogers will accept an expression pedal that is capable of generating a 0-5 volts CV, which is sometimes a greater range (on LFO rates namely) than the corresponding knob for that function. For those inputs that could handle a negative CV, you have to devise you own way to generate those signals… such as with a CP-251 which features a mixer with voltage offset control and inverted output (if desired). Of course, the MP-201 is capable on handling (and generating) 4 full range CV’s at the same time.
As far as sequencers go, I grabbed an Electribe AE-1 mkII in the classified for a very reasonable price. It performed quite well up till now. It is simple to program, yet in some ways, too complicated. I was not dissatisfied with it, but as it happens, I am just back from the music store with a new MF-101, and right there in front of me was an MFB Step 64. This particular unit was my first choice, but it was next to impossible to get for a while. I could not resist. The Step 64 is a tiny little thing, basic and simple yet flexible, very easy to work with in live situations. It’s capable of sequencing both to midi and CV (the AE-1 can’t do CV’s). I expect this will be the right one for me (and my own requirements are exactly just like yours). I’ll know soon how it turns out In the meantime, search YouTube for MFB Step 64, there’s a pretty convincing video of it with a Phatty I believe. It is BTW, compatible with the whole Moog family, modern or vintage, and definitely not outrageously price, even more considering that it will also work as a straight midi-to-CV converter, with two full programmable CV’s in addition of pitch and gate.
Thanks very much for all that info folks, particularly the stuff about CV (thanks Portamental). It hadn’t occurred to me that I could use my CP 251 to offset the voltage.
I’m not so interested in the MIDI side of things, I can do all that from Cubase if I need to. What I’m after is the performance capability of the older style analog sequencers like the Doepfer.
The Step 64 looks interesting though, certainly for the price. Does it allow you to change sequence length on the fly? And change the note value (pitch) on the fly (preferably using a knob rather than keyboard driven)? I’ll have to look into it.
One problem is that most sequencers available require a CP-251 unit to modify the voltage range for use with the Phatty. I still haven’t found a worthy sequencer.
I’m sure Moog could whip one up in a few weeks & be into a limited production run with a couple months – even though as responsive & great Moog is… I’m entirely afraid that they still work toward the bottom line which is money.
Unfortunately, I don’t think Moog would be amiable to giving us a sequencer due to limited sales potential. Some of us have been asking for a long time.
Amos, what are your feelings to a CP style seq? Here’s an idea: it could animate MoogerFoogers in addition to controlling the Little Phatty!
Haha! you give us a lot of credit… thanks! That might be true if we didn’t have anything else we were working on at the time… but we are always busy with as many projects as we can juggle.
It would be really cool! I don’t know what the market would be, or how cheap we could make it while still having interesting features. Something with only: [8 step knobs, an internal Rate oscillator, a clock input and a voltage output] … might be do-able and cheap… but as soon as you propose that, someone will say:
what about switches for step on/off/restart per step?
what about a restart CV input jack?
LED per step?
MIDI clock sync?
etc…
it can be hard to strike the right balance. I’ll think about it… kick around a few ideas… and remember folks, I’m not in charge of new product development. I mostly write firmware these days.
i’d get a cp-style seq, if the price was right. An 8 step would be a little limited, but a good justification for putting two together and putting em up in a 3space rack as a combo. Or maybe we could find a way to have like an A/B mode so you could set it to get up to 16 by going A-B on loop.
Ideally I’d like a basic 16 step control module with optional 8 step modules as add-ons!
Mind you, I’m seriously considering the Doepfer MAQ 16/3 after hearing that the CP 251 would off-set any voltage differential. I’m going to have to start saving.
I am not sure if you understood what I said about the CP-251. It’s mixer will introduce voltage offset, it’s a feature if you need it somehow somewhere but it’s not needed for sequencer use.
After some (fun) testing, the MFB Step 64 is working fine. Very easy to use, quite capable. I tested it first with midi, to make sure of pitch, then connected it via midi again to the MP-201, where it is sequencing both the LP and Voyager OS at the same time as I am writing this, in double midi-to-CV mode , perfectly in tune, . Much more fun through CV’s since you can transpose the sequence at the touch of a key
MFB Step 64 report 2 : All is well, this thing is a snap to learn. A few gray areas and misses, nothing major, such as transpose limitation. This midi limitation does not apply (as usual) when sequencing LP or OS with CV’s, easy transpose of a sequence over 9 octave confirmed. Highly tweakable during performance. From 4 mono channels to 4 voice polyphonic, there are many operating modes to choose from.
Combined with the flexible MP-201, it sequences LP and OS so well I am not tempted to go any further. I have another midi-to-CV converter (which has no tuning or voltage range issues) to test, and MFB’s own CV output mode and check for tuning just in case. But obviously, a midi sequencer and an MP-201, that’s just a worry free combination for any Moog’s.
Does the MFB Step 64 allow you to change the length of sequences on the fly? Can you change the loop point from, say the 8th note of the sequence to the 5th note with a simple button press? If so it might fit my bill.
Presumably the voltage offset would be useful where the CV voltage range of a module didn’t match that of the LP? Have I understood that part right?!
Yes and yes. You can change anything while looping : sequence number, individual notes, sequence length, tempo, any other extra CC or CV for each step.
Edit : well… actually, to change the number of steps of a sequence while running, you press a button AND twist a knob. This particular move may not be too DJ like, but is not hard to do. It does it.
Something like that. The CP-251 is an all purpose CV controller, for creative CV handling (like using it’s lfo or lag) or matching CV’s with some other devices if needed, but again, not required for sequencing in tune with CV’s.
The MFB Step64 is starting to sound rather attractive! I think I was initially put off by the looks of the thing. Silly, I know, but I love the classic look of the Doepfer.
But, if the Step 64 does all the things I want/need and is less than half the price, it is certainly very tempting!
Another remaining concern is that ideally I would have liked a knob per step of the sequence for note changing. What mechanism does the MFB use for note changing?
Thanks for your tolerance of all these queries btw
Note changing is the easiest it can be on this diminutive interface, and in some ways better than the modular. Press the step number, there you have your dedicated knob. It sounds the note when turned and allows a 5 octave range setting, with the notes written in plain english on the display (G3 C4). The actual octave is irrelevant when using CV’s since it’s instantly transposable, but this cover a good voltage range for when you want to sequence filters and envelopes for guitar (which I like a lot). Again here, the MP-201 opens more V range.
Definitely, the Step 64 is a well thought of little box (so far, time will tell).
No problem, I am discovering and having fun at the same time
Edit : One thought about the MFB. It’s really a tiny little thing, a rather fragile looking little plastic box, at ease in home or studio use. That does not mean it could not withstand the rigorous use of gigging, maybe it’s electronics (micro switches mainly) are as long lasting as anything else. But it sure does not have the size, sturdy feel and look of a DJ style machine like the Electribe or Future Orb.
Hi I might be late to the party but have you looked at the synth.com Q960 Sequential Controller? http://synthesizers.com/q960.html It seems to be billed as a Moog clone. And the build quality is supposed to be top rate. I was hoping Moog might have some sort of sequencer at the NAAM show next month but after Amos’s comments in this thread I’ll stop holding my breath.
In the meantime, search YouTube for MFB Step 64, there’s a pretty convincing video of it with a Phatty I believe. It is BTW, compatible with the whole Moog family, modern or vintage, and definitely not outrageously price, even more considering that it will also work as a straight midi-to-CV converter, with two full programmable CV’s in addition of pitch and gate.
you give us a lot of credit… thanks! That might be true if we didn’t have anything else we were working on at the time… but we are always busy with as many projects as we can juggle.