Ive updated the editor software today, i was already at the highest firmware level, I couldnt get to a stage to do anything with the plugin as soon as I started to map things went adrift, the next attempt Ableton crashed itself.
Here is a link to two short videos of this happening.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0N9blUzO0wuemgxa3RaLVU0VTg/view?usp=sharing
Ok i restarted my pc, and setup the external instrument and the plugin as you can see from the attached.
with the controls mapped the error occurs i.e greying out of the automation lane when the hardware knob is turned and recording of the clip turned off. The same procedure using the software interface does not result in this occurring.
the video shows all.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0N9blUzO0wudkVpZFV0TWpCT1E/view?usp=sharing
Hi,
I’m trying to reproduce it locally. Will you be able to attach this ableton project (zipped) ?
I will package it up, be back right at ya shortly. 
I just watched you video
Whats the reason that you are mapping the controls ?
if you just click any of the controls on the editor the automation line will show. So you don’t have to map any of the controls to use automation, I have never mapped the control and works perfect for me in ableton 9.6
I just tried this my way with 8 lines of automation running perfectly!
Try it without mapping see if you still have a problem
MESA
As I understood it if you dont map the controls you will have midi moving around with ableton unable to tell whats from where. If you map the hardware control to the plugin you can record the auto lane from both places ie the actual hardware or the plugin.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0N9blUzO0wudk91SGtZVExIM0k/view?usp=sharing
the project is here (i think I packaged it up right).
Hi there! I just checked this out, and I have a theory that it’s actually normal/correct Ableton behavior under these circumstances.
I will explain: First thing to know (1) is that the hardware knobs don’t stop sending MIDI the instant you stop moving them. They basically keep sending MIDI for about 1/4 or 1/2 a second after you stop moving the knob, especially if sending 14-bit MIDI or NRPN from the hardware (because at higher resolution, you get more messsages of “noise” from the pots).
Second thing to know is, for any MIDI controller in Live… if you are automating a parameter that is also mapped to a MIDI controller, then moving the MIDI controller knob will override the automation (which makes the automation turn grey and become inactive). So let’s say you map filter cutoff hardware knob to the plugin filter cutoff, and you record some automation and play it back… if you touch the Filter Cutoff knob, it greys out the track automation because you are overriding it with a live controller. This is by design.
So in the video (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0N9blUzO0wudkVpZFV0TWpCT1E/view) you are recording automation by turning the hardware knob, then the instant you stop recording, the automation lane turns grey.
This is normal because if even one extra MIDI-message comes from the knob, after recording is stopped, it will override the automation. See point (1) above; it’s normal for there to be some run-on messages for a few moments after you stop moving a knob.
Other DAWs like Logic have different modes for external controllers and automation, like “touch” versus “latch” — the behavior in Live is equivalent to “latch” - the parameter will “latch” onto the last received external control value if there is one, overriding automation.
The solution in Live for this specific issue, where for whatever reason the mapped (hardware) controller has overridden the automation, is to simply click the little left-pointing arrow icon in Live’s top bar (Re-Enable Automation),which is right next to the Automation Arm button. Re-Enable automation will turn all the automation channels back on, and they will stay on until or unless a MIDI CC is received from the hardware which is mapped to the same parameter as the automation.
Edit: see here, section 19.4, “Overriding Automation”: https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/automation-and-editing-envelopes/
No not for me works perfect,
Its the same if you don’t map it, you can still record the automation from the sub37 or the editor or draw in the automation
Ive been working this way for a while now with out any problems, I don’t see the point in mapping it every time I want to use/record automation
Never have with any over editor or vst
MESA
As part of my testing regime I try to test and do the same thing everyday so as to see if everything is stable. Today I added the external instrument, then added the plug in, then went to map and got incorrect cc values from the hardware during the midi mapping cycle. also I had a situation where the plug in itself had the filter cutoff moving itself albeit over a small range.
It was a really interesting one.
everything is zipped up here, videos and the ableton project.
I begin to think i am like a magnet to bugs
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0N9blUzO0wuSFRBR2NueGNSclk/view?usp=sharing
No your not a magnet, but why do you just keep mapping the plugin if its not working
Have you even tried the way I explained to you, or you just keep on using your regime that obviously dosent work?
I tried on earlier versions just with the editor and hit limits, however, that was 3 firmware versions ago. If I swap methods then I have no testing consistency, however, you make a very valid point and I will test your way as suggested. I have to nip out but will gladly try after that, i will records the screens at the point of use.
I had had an email from Amos showing what to do when the ableton automation lane goes grey, this was to use the arrow to the right of the automation arm which does work.
so that somewhat wraps up this thread using the mapping method.
Great, happy its working for you now 
Yes the automation arm will allways work this way with any automaton in ableton for any vst, ableton plugins or any mixer controlls, if you move the controll that is being automated, it deactivates the automation as you have made changes to the controll thats being automated. Its great the way it works like this, are you new to ableton?
For me I don’t see any reason why anyone would need to mapped the controls, what is the reason you map them?
I can’t see any benefit from it, just more work to do that’s not needed.
I have been working with this editor all last week and it’s not grayed out once, and i run alot of automation and it just works perfectly.
Look forward to seeing how it works for you if you don’t map the controlls
MESA
It was suggested to create the link to the hardware as its easier to move a hardware knob than to change the knob on the software version. If the link is not made then the automation just appears under a general midi stream in the envelope section.
anyway it proves the versatility of the equipment software by being able to approach the challenge in different ways.
Maybe Moog have some thoughts on this subject, I am of the view that whatever way you use the product software hardware configurations should be stable, whether one way is better than the other well thats an entirely different question out of the scope of beta testing.
anyway found some spare time so just revisiting this.
doing the automation with the plug in editor and using the mouse I got to 13 automation lanes no problem, I dont personally like using the mouse and prefer the hardware method but it does prove that at least with the software editor that the problems have disappeared in terms of automation quantity of lanes, as previous firmware levels had stopped at 2.
I can also post that ive had a successful test with linking the hardware and software plugin. The reason I believe I had a previous failure was because I had midi din and usb selected on the hardware, ive set this to usb only for my current config and had zero problems.
I will create a video to reflect this and my guide to reflect this and then close this thread.
Maybe that was the problem, I had a problem last week and then I noticed that NRPN was set in the editor when I changed back to midi it all worked perfect
I use the mouse to just configure the automation line then use the Sub37 to record the it in to ableton,
so you can record the automation with the hardware, this is easier in the arrangement page of ableton tho
yes ive successfully done it now, will have to stop testing for a few days due to operation but cannot wait to get back to it once I have recovered. I shall check those other settings you mentioned too
Do you guys notice the resolution of automation lane is jagged compared to the midi cc automation? Is there somewhere to up the resolution in Live? Thanks…
To up the resolution in Live you need to use Option.txt
Google Ableton Option.txt should find what your looking for