A REAL Moog

The Moog Forum Moog Music General Topics Forum
1

The Voyager, Little Phatty, Taurus III, and Moogerfoogers have the fingerprints of Bob Moog all over them. They’re truly Moogish. At this point, though, any all-new instruments that the Moog Music company develops will be free of Bob Moog’s direct influence (although he’s certainly influenced the staffers, and probably has left behind a number of blueprints for future instruments).

I don’t know how the rest of you feel about this, but the fact does remove for me SOME of the attraction of Moog Music in general. What special meaning does the name brand “Moog” have from now on? New instruments will not be the by-product of the brilliant and original Bob Moog mind, but will merely carry his name. I know many of you are fans of the company’s staffers, but they just ain’t the real thing, even if Bob had a profound influence on them.

My point is this: I hope Moog Music revitalizes some of Bob’s old instruments - the Polymoog, the Micromoog, etc. Fine, let the company update them, as they did the Voyager. I’m all for that. But personally, I’d much rather buy an instrument that carried Bob’s name in a meaningful way, rather than just as a marketing advantage.

Moog Music, bring out some of Bob’s old classics. Give us something with his fingerprints all over it, and not just instruments with his label on them.

2

Just speaking in terms of my own feelings and priorities, the point is moot. What I value about older Moog instruments is that, through whatever means, they achieved a certain level of quality and interactivity. Instruments of the future which have similar properties would be similarly valuable to me, regardless of who is behind them.

3

I agree. Most of my instruments are from DSI, and I think they’re all fabulous. A good synthesizer is a good synthesizer, regardless of the name or make. But my point pertains to Moog itself, and what the name presently means. For me, it means Bob Moog’s uniqueness and genius, and nothing else. But what about now and into the future?

Could any company other than Moog charge $3,000 for a monophonic synthesizer and have so tremendous a fan base? I dare say that a large portion of that price is for the label. But what value does the label have now, and why? Is it merely by association?

4

The quality is what I think garners the price tag as well as the Moog genius. I would think that to go back and produce a revamped and updated Micromoog would be silly, as the Little Phatty is very much this and more. The Voyager is more than the old model D Mini except that it may lack some of the elegant simplicity of the Model D.

For me, the present-day Moog Music speaks of a level of quality. I think they should be somewhat careful about developing products that don’t achieve the same “mission statement” that Bob already has created with the Moogerfooger pedals, the Voyager and Little Phatty. As long as they retain the “look” and quality level, and the incredible sound, Moog Music will continue to be a top analog synth and effects producer.

As to what product that harkens back to the old days I’d like to see put out there: A new modular system that is analog, can be built with the Mooferfoogers, and can interact with your computer, maybe either a DJ type item or something like that.

All this being said I’m confident (so far) that Bob’s influence on his company was so influential, that they would really have to try in order to destroy his hard-earned “Moog dynamic” that all the present products retain.

5

By referring to Bob’s “uniqueness and genius,” I mean in producing the superb sound that is distinctly Moog. This sound has become a refernce point in all synthesizer discussion.

6

When I learned that Bob Moog passed away, the first thing that I thought was “There goes the company”. I no longer think this.

Cyril Lance is lucky because he was hand picked by Bob (from my understanding) from a list of qualified people, and he follows in the footsteps (though mighty big ones) of a true pioneer.

Another thing that is worth mentioning is Mike Bucki. From 1974 until the doors closed, Mike Bucki was the man who built the Modulars. He was the only person still making modular synths with the original inventory and the ONLY former Moog tech doing service to the ORIGINAL MOOG NY company instruments. Moog gets asked all the time if they service vintage instruments (enough to include it on their FAQ) but Bucki’s name is not mentioned on the list of people still around.

EDIT: THE REASON FOR THIS IS BECAUSE THE SAME MIKE BUCKI, OWNER AND OPERATOR OF MODUSONICS HAS NUMEROUS INSTANCES WHERE HE HAS FAILED TO RETURN ITEMS SENTTO HIM FOR REPAIR AND HAS FAILED TO RECTIFY THIS SITUATION AFTER SEVERAL YEARS.

7

Hi TAO,

Just offering a different take on your thread. My personal example comes from the years I worked at Kurzweil.
Although I previously had more than a decade of intense synth schooling and performance, it was, without
question, my extraordinary fortune to be able to work, play, and eat with the brilliant men and women of
Kurzweil’s Research & Development Facility in Waltham, MA.

At the risk of forgetting many important names, I’ll mention John Teele, Bob Chidlaw, Hal Chamberlin,
Chris Martirano, Joe Ierardi, Geoff Gee, Jennifer Hruska, Rick Cohen, Juni Kobayoshi, Howard Brown, Jeff
Winston, Tim Thompson, Jeff Dunmire, and many more…

Each of these people have become well known throughout our industry; but there was a magical time in the
early-to-mid-'90s when we all worked in the same building. (What I wouldn’t give to have us all together again…)

Each and every one of them gave me priceless technical knowledge and, more importantly, a way of thinking
about sound quality, flexibility, usability, esthetics, non-obsolescence, and the incredible power of “what if?”

Without question, a huge portion of all my successes after Kurzweil happened because I still continue to think
like a Kurzweil Engineer.

My point? The people at Moog lived, worked, and played in the presence of Dr. Robert Moog. I was lucky enough
to meet Bob several times and I can say that he was completely generous with his technology, concepts, time,
methodologies, and most importantly, his dreams for future projects.

I have complete faith in the people who were deemed worthy to work side-by-side with Bob, and I will be as
excited about any entirely new product as I would with any relaunching of a legacy product.

I eagerly look forward to both.

:smiling_imp: DanielFisher :smiling_imp:

8

This is a VERY interesting dialog!

Another thing to consider is that many of the instruments bearing the Moog name, from back in the day, were created when Bob was no longer with the company. So that complicates matters a bit. Where does one draw the line?

FWIW, I feel that the Moog instruments coming out NOW are better than the vintage ones I had back in the day. Disclosure: I never owned a Mini. But I have owned a few Micro’s, a Prodigy and a Polymoog, and logged time on some of the others. But the feeling, connection, and sound I get from my LP, my Voyager, Moogerfoogers, (and hopefully soon my T3’s) captures that sound and vibe while offering all the conveniences of a modern instrument.

9

Wow! I’m really surprised by the responses so far. And you guys are regulars on this forum! I thought for certain there were many Moog-a-maniacs and Moog purists who felt the same way as I - or even stronger - yet it seems to be just the opposite.

Let me add that the finest synthesizer I’ve ever played is the Voyager Old School. I would never want to return to the Model D, even if its sound was a bit thicker and warmer. In my opinion, in the VOS, the Minimoog has reached its zenith. I only wish that Moog would do the same for some of its other instruments - perfect them, that is. (By the way, is it just me, or does the Little Phatty have an unusual number of techinical problems with it? The LP forum is just filled with complaints.)

Still, I’m less excited about the company as it stands without Bob at the helm, and I’d like to see one or two of his old classics revived. That would be exciting.

10

Until our very last Voyager Old School was sold, we’ve had one on display in our showroom.

Every day, when I walked past it, I’d tweak up something wild and leave it for a customer to discover.
I felt a serious ache the day I saw that it wasn’t there anymore. I still miss it.

11

If we step back and take a look at Moog History, and Brian K would be in a much better position to speak on this subject than I, The instruments that we came to know and love as Moog instruments were built with Bob’s close interaction with the people who were using his machines.

The Minimoog is probably the ultimate example of this, and the Voyager even moreso.

Bob had the circuitry together, but it was the musicians who employed their usage in their art that helped them to evolve. Wendy Carlos requested a Fixed Filter Bank (now a staple on modular synths) and Vladmir Ussachevsky designed the concept of the ADSR (which is inherant in all synths now, software included). The Most requested of the Modules became the MiniMoog.

Anyone that has spent any amount of time on these forums will see, ocassionally, Mike Adams himself logged on answering customer questions. Amos and Steve Dunnington are on here all the time as well as Chris Stack ansering questions and more importantly, asking us questions and taking our suggestions as we oh so generously donate them.

I finally got to make my “pilgrimage” to the factory in Asheville, in January. They have pictures of him everywhere. They aren’t going to let his memory slip through the floorboards just to prosper as a gourmet “label”.


Now ask this question in another 10 or 15 years when alot of people who may have worked side by side with The Good Doctor might be gone for some reason or the technology changed radically, and you might get different answers (in hindsight) on the state of the company. I seriously doubt that any of his good friends still employed there are going to let his influence wane in any form whatsoever.

Finally,
I think that Bob Moog’s spirit wouldn’t best be served rehashing his old standards. I think he got where he did by pushing the envelope and I think that as long as Moog does just that, then they will really continue on in his tradition. That is what makes a Moog product in my opinion, one that socks you from left field bearing features that you didn’t even know that you need. The Murf (one of Bob’s last designs) was genius in simplicity. Not too many people saw that coming. It is going to be innovations like this that really allow “Moog” products to be worthy of the badge.



Edit:
You mentioned blueprints…well I throeize that there will be stuff that is going to come from his Archives that could very well lead to future products. This is one of the main reasons why people who love Moog should donate to the Bob Moog Foundation.

Respectfully,
Eric

12

Making a present-day Polymoog or Memorymoog would be ridiculous unless they were, like the Vgers, similar outside and in concept to what they were copying, but completely different inside.

Unfortunately, neither DSI nor Moog can produce the instruments they used to simply because there’s no CEM or SSM type chips available today.
Alesis had to go the route of producing their own chips, but it was very expensive.
If Moog dumped a ton of money into R&D and made their own synth chips, they’d be closer to producing a polyphonic, but they’d also be investing a huge amount of money into it.
With how competition is, the economy and how much US workers require (as compared to Chinese), it would be a huge gamble.
Arp, the original Moog company, SCI and Oberheim all suffered from trying to bring a polyphonic to market at a reasonable price and with enough profit to stay financially sound.
And they all died as companies because of this.
Every one of these companies started out making very high quality instruments with a price tag to match.
Simply look at the SEM based polyphonics by Oberheim, Moog modulars, Arp 2500s… then their later offerings.
All company’s first offerings were high quality metal and wood instruments.
Their last offerings were stripped-down, highly compromised instruments.
Think Opus 3, Arp Quartet, SCI’s Max, Oberheim’s lower-end matrix brand synths and so on.
Even Alesis found that despite making their own synth chips and having a name and distribution network in place wasn’t enough to turn a profit.
With the road littered with these companies and their failures trying to deliver analog polyphonics at a reasonable price, Moog is wise not putting all their eggs in one basket now.
Making a polyphonic synth requires a huge investment and it’s prudent for Moog not to embark on something like this until they’re confident they can make a profit, produce a quality instrument and support it in the future.
Right now, I don’t think they can do this and judging by what their current line is, neither do they.
It’s all too easy to tell a gambler to to put all their money on one hand, but it’s not their money either.

Personally I think Moog Music Inc is doing fine both at producing instruments that Bob would approve of AND in keeping their company afloat.

If I had any suggestions, it would be to offer a new modular line, but not one based on Moogerfoogers.
Anyone well-versed at modulars can easily see that a Moogfooger based modular would have a lot of compromises and shortcomings.
It would be silly to try and make a good modular from what Moogfoogers exist now.
People that argue this probably don’t have much or any experience operating modulars.

Having the Moog name is both a blessing and a curse.
A blessing because they’re prequalified, but a curse in that they must live up to Bob’s ideals and philosophy.
It’s not easy to produce quality instruments today in the US.
If Moog didn’t have the name or the quality, they’d be no different that than the huge numbers of other pedal manufacturers out there today.
Some knowledge should be gleamed from looking at Roland, Korg and Yamaha today.
None produce a modular or analog polyphonic now and for good reason.
Moog could likely fill this void, but could conceivably go broke trying too.
That’s not a good business plan.

So does the name Moog have any bearing on people?
Yes, but don’t forget that it has the largest bearing on the people carrying that torch.
They have a responsibility to not ruin their company too.

As for Mike Bucki, when I spoke to Bob, he didn’t even recall who he was.
There are others that heard Bob say this also.
I respect Mike because he’s a good tech, but he had no hand in the design of any Moogs from what Bob said.
Any contributions he made while at Moog came after products had been designed and marketed, not before.

13

Hi Kevin,

Don’t forget the ARP Avatar! That was a pretty serious dagger :wink:

14

I believe the Taurus 3 proves Moog is in good hands with Mike & Co. That said, I too would like to see more reissues of classic Moog synths, but I’m not against Moog exploring some new directions as well. It’s all good stuff!! And I also agree with the comment earlier that stated a great synth is a great synth, no matter who’s name is on it. I love my Moogs, but I also love my DSI and Roland gear. How boring life would be if we didn’t have some variety, and we all drove the same cars, played the same synths, etc..

15

Was the new Taurus planned before Bob passed? I thought it was after.

Even if it was planned before, it appears a lot of the engineering happened after. And the thing sounds fucking amazing. Wish I could afford one. Judging from that, I’d say the company is in good hands. Bob’s spirit lives on in the circuits. OK, that was a cheesy thing to say, but I stand by it.

Keep on doing what you’re doing Moog.
I look forward to buying an MF-106 and a CP-252 in the future. :smiley:

16

I think we should really give more credit to the people that are designing/testing/assembling/repairing and everything else at Moog music right now..

We all have a lot of respect and admiration for Bob Moog.. There’s absolutely no questioning that.. I could go on forever about how true that is, but I think we all know how we feel about him.

Having said that, I have a immense amount of respect and admiration for the Moog team today. I personally am not one to question their skill or determination or ethics in their work. I have a feeling that they understand Moog’s philosophy, design, and theories, better than any of us do. They live with his memory everyday, and worked alongside him. I trust that if anyone is going to make instruments that Moog would approve of, it would be the people working at MM now.

Also, with saying that.. Let’s realize that Bob Moog was a man.. He was a brilliant man, who reached his vast potential in a lot of ways during his lifetime.. he was extremely creative, and found success with it.. So let’s not forget that there are people working at MM now that are incredibly talented and have vast potentials to reach now.. Let’s not limit our expectations from them.. they are going to do some very amazing things in the coming years that I’m sure for the most part we’ll all love and buy.

Will every future product fit the bill to you as looking exactly like what you’d expect from Bob? Probably not, but that answer would be relative, and the question is unreasonable.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I have complete faith in all of them.

17

think about mr. steinway: he died long time ago but steinway piano factories keep on producing amazing musical instruments. the same goes for enzo ferrari and the current ferrari cars.

well, for sure it would have been much better to have doc Bob Moog around for some more years. but great men are those who after innovating are able to lay down solid fundations for people to keep on innovating from where they had to leave.

18

I completely agree.

19

Lots of good points here, the main one being that the people at Moog music are those supremely qualified with carrying the torch. I’m sure Bob’s own hard fought right to use his own name again is fresh in the minds of those at Moog Music. There is a lesson as Kevin pointed out that every other “big” synth company (actually including Moog Inc.) learned, that you can have big ideas and some ideals as well but you have to have a good business sense of it, otherwise the company will go under. Bob was always somewhat conservative-minded and that is a good mindset to use when entering into a new product line.

About the Model D.. There is no comparison, whatsoever between the sound of a maintained Mini and a Micromoog or certainly a Polymoog. They’re all nice instruments though.

20

I hope they don’t. I want to see Bob’s instruments evolve. Moog Music has some great people at work, and I would like to see them continue to use their imagination and come out with new and innovative instruments which will inspire musicians to produce sounds yet imagined. I hope Moog continues with its incredible quality and customer support. The Moog guitar, the Multi Pedal, The Freq Box. . . stay the course and challenge us with more innovative creations!