(Sorry for being off topic)
While I try to keep an open mind about certain forms of electronic music and have liked some DJ’s scratching techniques, for the most part the super high pitched scratch tones have always been a turn off for me. However this is by far the best scratch I have ever seen anyone do. Though it’s just a short clip, I watch this over and over and still am blown away by the sheer craziness of it. Mix Master Mike turns Robert Johnson’s voice into an alien yodel:
mix master mike is amazing, always doing far out stuff with turntables. i think he uses some moog gear too.
did you see this kid in the related video bar?
http://youtu.be/Y92Scr1i68U
yes! but no… this is the one: http://vimeo.com/5259519
Recorded in one take with 4 cameras (left, right, center, and a DJ cam) On the Criterion DVD that this was include on, you can click to see ANY of the 4 cameras at any time or watch it as shown here; Amazing…
RIP MCA
Heres a loaded question:
Do you consider turntables to be musical instruments or engineering tools?
Both.
They play music, and can be played to make music. Can’t really scratch an old player piano.
I’d say ‘both’ as well. I really woke up when I saw a video of a couple of DJ’s sitting around having a session, and was struck by how much it resembled conga players sitting around trading beats. Same flow.
Scratching to me is not an artform. To me it is a lazy way to get new sounds, by rearranging old ones. Sure, some DJ’s are better than others at it, but I also believe that it comes down to how fast you can slide a fader and how you manipulate the vinyl. Really, I believe ANYONE can learn to scratch, and that if any REAL skill was involved, there wouldn’t be such a huge number of DJ’s out there. Just MHO. Flames begin in 3…2…1…
Such disrespect for delicate equipment which has achieved higher and higher standards of sound quality even after vinyl stopped being mainstream. You cannot be serious leaving a needle sitting in the one spot for even the briefest period of time (the vinyl is melting from the pressure), or drag the record backwards when the whole physics of needle playback tells you its wrong.
Use a digital player with wav file for this stuff! They may even develop equipment which records audio one day, sort of like a ‘sample’ of a sound if you will…
B
LivePsy, I am aware that there are samplers out there that simulate turntables. They even have some that can be plugged into an MP3 player. But, destroying records seems to be the main goal of DJ’s. Like someone who starts out with a Yamaha PSR-70 and strives to own a Moog, DJ’s start with Numark samplers and strive to own $500 turntables and an endless supply of vinyl which they can destroy and dispose of, just for the sake of their “art”. Complete rubbish, I say.
There’s only something like 200 plays before the sound degrades on vinyl. And that’s without torturing it 
Really not sure why vinyl is so important, must just be the iconic image. There’s lots of new releases but just so few genres on vinyl now.
B
Yeah, it’s the image. DJ’s have a whole bunch of vinyl scratch records at their disposal. Many of them glow-in-the-dark, or picture discs, or have unusual label designs. All of it made to be destroyed.
I don’t see turntables as being a musical instruments. Yes you can make “music” with them but I consider the skills employed with turntable manipulation more that of engineering. Maybe you guys can convince me otherwise.
The motions are so similar to what we do when we tweak knobs. A modular synthesizer performance isn’t always like “Hit the right keys at the right time” as one would on a piano, but more like programming a series of events and turning a pot or press a button or making pre-planned or improvised program changes at the right particular time. The difference: You can actually make original sounds and music with a synthesizer, but turntables require sounds already prerecorded to be manipulated.
I do see the usage of turntables as an art form, and I do acknowledge the rhythmic aspects of turntable operation, but a percussionist can take any two objects and make some kind of sound, that doesn’t mean they are instruments.
I believe that it takes rhythmic ability or creativity to do something with a turntable, but it doesn’t take any musical ability to program sounds on a synth.
It depends on the sound or the music.
If you tune 3 or more oscillators to a chord, knowing what the intervals are or what chord it produces has value.
Same for making sounds used for crescendos, trills, etc.
If synthesizing known instruments, knowledge of pitch range is important.
The end of that was hot.
I like this one. Scratching comes in at about 4:30.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh3SGEauZkE
Sure it does.
It can be a musical instrument, just like a computer or modular synth or a wooden table can be an instrument, even though if that wasn’t it’s original purpose,the musician is what makes it musical. Turntables or vinyl themselves aren’t instruments, but as you can see in the video I posted, extremely amazing and technical things can be done with them. What you are seeing mix master mike do is extremely difficult, which doesn’t mean it’s musical necessarily, but in this case it does, in my opinion. DJ’s that just beat match or play records aren’t musicians, but I have seen scratch DJ’s like Logic go toe to toe with extremely talented musicians.
As far as most scratching is concerned, it is more of a sport to most of them than a musical discipline, and the timbres are usually ugly high pitched crap but sometimes you run across things like this that are mind blowing. The fact that he is able to keep the vocal in tune with the breakbeat is amazing.
There will always be purists who are resistant to new instruments/forms of music, and in many cases they are justified, I just thinks it pays to keep an open mind.
Geez, that’s badass! He’s doing that with one record? I don’t understand that at all.
dismissive comments generalizing any genre/artform are for suckers, really.
Like any instrument, anyone can try to scratch. Some lucky and talented folks might even be really good at it without much work. It’s clear that some folks are better than others, and I think the videos in this post show that it is possible to attain a kind of mastery, just as on any instrument. Dogma doesn’t really work with art, and it seems to me that the moog forums should be a place where we can all have a broad and inclusive definition of music making. I’m a classical guitarist by trade, and I’m no stranger to the practice room, but I sometimes am saddened by the need to qualify a person’s music making or art making by the technical skill that is required, since there are other factors at play that make something valuable. Really, I am never so sure that I can truly tell what it takes for someone to be able to do something until I have accomplished it myself. . .
I’m just sayin’. . .
Just to clarify, I’m not being dismissive of it at all. There have been many times over the years that I have thought how similar analog synthesis and turntables are, based on the amount of time your hands spend in the “air” between components, turning pots that offer a level of manipulation over the sound generation sources. I think there are a lot of similarities between these two disciplines.
Synthesizer equipment is such that it doesn’t require the operator to possess any knowledge or rhythmic ability to coax a high quality sound or series of sounds out of it. Turntables I think are from the same family that tape splicing is…stringing sounds together in new ways from audio sources already available. It does take creativity to apply these in a musical fashion, and the more musical ability the operator has, the better.
It definitely is an art form, and people like Mixmaster Mike and the guys from Public Enemy are legends.
Maybe I’m not so convinced after all…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEQNAZGoZrw
“Wandering Star” by Portishead. I’m sure many of you have heard it. Geoff Barrow is the turntablist of the group, and I’ve always loved his style. Specifically in the song, he does play a very tasteful pattern with his turntables.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZll5LuabEQ
“Mysterons” by the same band. Here, Geoff is actually playing a recognizable melody with his records.
You can’t listen to these and say he’s not a musician. That would be unfair.
P.S. keeping things Moog: Keyboardist is playing a Source 
Love this. Have you ever seen them live? what a treat.