Minimoog and Voyager

orangefunk · Post by **orangefunk** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:42 am

Hello,
I am lucky enough to now have both of the superb instruments. I am wondering some things though...

On the Mini there is the so called bent triangle (sawtooth-triangle) wave.. is this obtainable on the Voyager? I guess this would be obtained via shifting the waveform knob to around the '2' position but I don't think it sounds quite the same. Also are the triangle and bent triangle waveforms quieter then the others on the minimoog... it seems that way on mine.

Ta...

till · Post by **till** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:55 pm

Actually, you have to tell us what minimoog version you are comparing the Voyager to. The different minimoog versions sound different!

But the Voyager is not intended to sound 100% like the minimoog. Think more of it as a new version of a minimoog with plenty of new and additional features.

orangefunk · Post by **orangefunk** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:02 pm

yep I realise that, I was just interested in getting that same waveform sound as I think its great...

My Moog is a 1972 version from checking the serial with others. I got it from the Norwegian jazz musician Bugge Wesseltoft.

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:58 pm

Awesome.

MC · Post by MC » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:00 pm

Waveform = "1.5" will approximate that waveshape

I also have both, and came upon this setting by observing them on an oscilloscope.

orangefunk · Post by **orangefunk** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:17 pm

Thanks! Are the tri and bent tri waveforms quieter than the others?

mayidunk · Post by **mayidunk** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:52 pm

Here is oscilloscope software you can use to compare waveshapes between your Mini and Voyager. It uses your computer's soundcard as an A/D converter. The download is a 14 day free trial that isn't gimped.

http://www.zelscope.com/download.html

Hope this helps!

Bob

acorkos · Post by **acorkos** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:07 pm

orangefunk wrote:Thanks! Are the tri and bent tri waveforms quieter than the others?

on my voyager OS, triangle is quietest, gradually increasing volume as the wave control moves towards sawtooth. moving from saw to square sarts to 'hollow-out' the timbre, but the volume is about the same. here's a quote from the OS manual:

"The waveform determines the harmonic richness of the audio signal.
There are four basic waveforms common to most synthesizers: sawtooth,
square, triangle and sine.

The sawtooth wave is the richest sounding of the four waves.
It contains all of the harmonics, and has a bright, buzzy sound.
Sawtooth waves are ideal for brass and string sounds, bass sounds
and rich accompaniments.

The square wave possesses a hollow sound compared to the sawtooth,
owing to the fact that it contains only odd harmonics. This hollow
characteristic is ideal for distinctive lead and sustained (pad) sounds.
An interesting aspect of the square wave is that the waveshape can be
changed to make the top and bottom parts asymmetrical, creating a pulse
wave. By changing the shape of the wave, new harmonics are introduced.
Pulse waves are ideal for creating clavinet-like sounds, but are also useful
for creating lush pads...

Like the square wave, the triangle wave only contains odd harmonics,
but the levels of the harmonics in a triangle wave are much less. The
triangle wave has a soft, slightly buzzy sound that is suitable for
highpitched leads (like a flute) or adding a beefy sub-bass
to bass sounds."

MC · Post by MC » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:20 am

orangefunk · Post by **orangefunk** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:55 am

Great idea on using the oscilloscope software! I don't have both synths hooked up atm but over xmas will..

when using the Voyager I don't recall the huge volume drop that I get with the Mini when using the tri and bent tri... Certainly many aspects of this particular moog need calibration (e.g. the tuning across the keyboard changes, the keyboard triggers incorrectly, etc, etc.)

GregAE · Post by **GregAE** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:58 am

Orange -

Your question about Voyager waveforms has already been researched and documented. It's part of an article called "Vintage, Voyager or Virtual", which is a comparison test of a Minimoog Model D, Minimoog Voyager and Creamware Minimax in detail. You can find it on KnobTweak. Look in:

KnobTweak > Files > Voyager > Vintage, Voyager or Virtual

Cheers!

- Greg

EDIT: Here's an excerpt from the document concerning Voyager Wave settings:

"4. To duplicate the Minimoog oscillator waveforms on the Voyager, use these WAVE settings:

Triangle Wave: 000
Tri-Saw Hybrid Wave (aka 'Sharktooth' wave): 025
Sawtooth Wave: 088
Square Wave: 178
Pulse Wave (35%): 220
Narrow Pulse Wave (15%): 250"

orangefunk · Post by **orangefunk** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:41 am

Thanks for that.. joining!

Kevin Lightner · Post by **Kevin Lightner** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:47 am

MC ..Thanks for the scope shot.
It looks like they're basically inverted. (time-wise, not amplitude-wise.)

One thing though- the triangle symmetry can change from Mini to Mini.
I often see triangles that aren't quite perfect and it's usually a resistor that's off value.
After replacement with the original value, they're much more equal on both sides with no little glitch.
It appears to be due to aging parts because the older the Mini, the more often I've noticed this.
It's very common to find resistors way out of value in really old Minis.
(those dark brown carbon types appear to be the worst too.)

Maybe replace all the resistors in just one of your VCO's waveform converters with 1% metal film and see if there's a change?

MC · Post by MC » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:50 pm

orangefunk · Post by **orangefunk** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:05 pm

very interesting MC! I'm not sure what it all means in terms of sound but I always thought the Voyager sounded more like the modular synths of old than the mini... funny to see the notch in the triangle wave in particular.. I wonder if this was 'designed in' I rather suspect it was!