Dear Moog

[nickster]

Been looking into the Dark Energy and I thought this is something Moog should really be doing themselves. I wonder at how many people would be willling to buy a 1 osc Moog with patching capabilities that the DE offers? If it could be done for under 700 bucks I'm pretty hopefull that there would be many takers. Both LP and Voyager owners would be interested and more importantly some non Moog owners bringing them into the Moog worlrd.
What does everyone else think???

[Portamental]

The little Doepfler is kinda nice and low cost and good for the local continental market, but not all that good a deal for the american market, where the Mopho will bury the Doepfler any time. Besides, the killer of both is coming soon in the real Tom Oberheimer's 2 Osc analog box, designed from it's own vintage units, expected to sell 900 or so. That's a market with a lot of appeal I think.

How much would it cost for Moog to produce a competing product? Hummmm, let's see... dump the big frame and keys, put the internals of the LP into a smaller box... can be done real quick too if they decide so. And still come with very competive pricing, if they decide so. That's if...(turn the latch on)

[CTRLSHFT]

MF-107: $350 retail
MF-101: $280 retail
+
Assorted parts for 2? LFOs
Assorted parts for an ADSR
Assorted parts for everything else
-
Figuring in discounted parts and discounts as 107 and 101 aren't complete units
=
~$600-$800?

Seems like they could totally do it. Maybe for even less. As far as the Doepfer goes though, keep in mind it's filter uses a curtis chip (dunno about the osc/everything else,) so that is going to keep costs down considerably where the Moog might end up being more pricey.

Honestly, I could see Moog going a step further down the ladder and making a 1 osc synth w/ a keyboard sooner than a 1 osc expander-type module. The NanoMoog!

[nickster]

I am seeing more along the lines of having the "Mono Moog" (single osc synth box) as both a starter Moog synth and as a synth expander for the Voyager and LP . With the excellent CV out upgrade offer from Moog for the LP and the Voyager's breakout box and existing patching the Mono Moog could really offer some joy to Moog owners. In this econnomic climate I hope that it would be a good solution for attracting new business to Moog and opening up this company to a younger less financially endowed market. Also it could really encourage people to upgrade to the LP or Voyager. Midi in and out with USB connectivity with a sotware VST type interface would aim it squarely at the 16-30 year old market of course not exclusivly . Furthermore I see also the potential of having further small units that whilst not strictly Moogerfoogers might open up the world of modular expansion of a person's Moog setup. A small Sequencer or Multimode/Format Filter etc could if priced right be very interesting to the market.
I just feel that ideas for a large poly Moog (whilst delicious) at present would potentially expose Moog as a company to too much risk and what we all really want is for Moog to make stuff we can afford and use whilst at the same time remaining a profitable healthy company.
Like the Nano Moog idea too CTRLSHFT
Nick

[ColorForm2113]

moog has never really been about jumping on band wagons though. if anything the dark energy and mopho/tetra are a result of what mog started with the little phatty. no body had an analog synth on the market at that time for below $1300 i dont think and moog made it happen. so everybody else has been try to under cut moog to make their entery more appealing. so for moog to try and undercut themselves again would be very...uh...korg

but also on that note a moog expander box would be pretty cool

[CTRLSHFT]

moog has never really been about jumping on band wagons though. if anything the dark energy and mopho/tetra are a result of what mog started with the little phatty. no body had an analog synth on the market at that time for below $1300 i dont think and moog made it happen. so everybody else has been try to under cut moog to make their entery more appealing. so for moog to try and undercut themselves again would be very...uh...korg

but also on that note a moog expander box would be pretty cool

i don't think something akin to the micromoog would be an undercut or bandwagon jump though, it's a logical progression from 3 oscs to 2 oscs to 1 osc. If they played their cards right and found a way to make somethibg unique that can't be copied by the lp or the voyager, we've got a winner! I would totally pay like 700 for something like that, i think they could pull it off and rake in serious sales. Guess we'll see.

[nikola]

Besides, the killer of both is coming soon in the real Tom Oberheimer's 2 Osc analog box, designed from it's own vintage units, expected to sell 900 or so

where did you get this information ?

[Prime NL]

Besides, the killer of both is coming soon in the real Tom Oberheimer's 2 Osc analog box, designed from it's own vintage units, expected to sell 900 or so

where did you get this information ?

From his site...? -> http://www.tomoberheim.com/

Check also : http://vimeo.com/4999164

[peterkadar]

The thing to remember is that the Mopho is a pretty seriously endowed mono synth... 2 osc's each with a sub osc, plus loads of modulation goodies. I think if Moog were to do a product in that price range, a lot of newbies might opt for the Mopho as opposed to a better quality and possibly better sounding, but less feature laden moog.

Having said that, a modular synth toolkit like the Dark Energy would be really cool. Especailly if it could be either a table top, or rackmounted like a CP-251 (or a pair of them).

[CTRLSHFT]

The thing to remember is that the Mopho is a pretty seriously endowed mono synth... 2 osc's each with a sub osc, plus loads of modulation goodies. I think if Moog were to do a product in that price range, a lot of newbies might opt for the Mopho as opposed to a better quality and possibly better sounding, but less feature laden moog.

Having said that, a modular synth toolkit like the Dark Energy would be really cool. Especailly if it could be either a table top, or rackmounted like a CP-251 (or a pair of them).

Mopho is not a fair comparison, curtis chips cost way less than a discrete LPF/VCO does. I agree that they are in the same market though, so as to whether Moog will make a unit like those is completely up to whether it makes sense financially for them to do that. Undoubtedly it would have less features than the Mopho does, it's just not financially possible do feature battle with chipsynths. I think though that the Moog sound alone would be good enough to justify a simple Tone Module synth with ample CV I/Os to beef up modulation options. No patch memory or anything like that, just a little Cp-251 sized expander module for Voyagers and LPs. I'd still drop some coin for something like that provided it didn't jump over the $700 mark. If they could do it for like $500 it'd be a miracle!

[peterkadar]

I agree CTRLSHFT; I'd love to see a dark energy type of synth from Moog.

And I agree that a Mopho isn't really a fair comparison either. But I think a lot of people new to analog would not see the advantages of the type of Moog we're talking about. Nor would your typical salesperson at Guitar Center be able to adequately explain to them. I think if a newbie had to choose between a Dark Energy and a Mopho, 9 times out of 10 they'd choose the latter. Not that the Mopho is a bad instrument - I'm really excited about the Tetra - but I'd hate to see Moog invest $$ in an instrument that is potentially so niche oriented that it puts them in a bad spot financially.

[CTRLSHFT]

I agree CTRLSHFT; I'd love to see a dark energy type of synth from Moog.

And I agree that a Mopho isn't really a fair comparison either. But I think a lot of people new to analog would not see the advantages of the type of Moog we're talking about. Nor would your typical salesperson at Guitar Center be able to adequately explain to them. I think if a newbie had to choose between a Dark Energy and a Mopho, 9 times out of 10 they'd choose the latter. Not that the Mopho is a bad instrument - I'm really excited about the Tetra - but I'd hate to see Moog invest $$ in an instrument that is potentially so niche oriented that it puts them in a bad spot financially.

Good news is that GC doesn't carry desktop units in Pro Audio really ever because they're essentially unmarketable on the floor! The Tetra is a fantastic synth, as is in the Mopho (which is cheap!) and those don't get any love either in the mainstream market, who in all honesty probably doesn't care about something like that anyway. They want presets, tiny keys and gooseneck mics on everything. :p

Moog just needs to push it like the other manufacturers have. Or really how they have been from the start with the Moogerfoogers. They seriously wouldn't have trouble selling a 1 osc synth with a LPF, 2 envs and a LFO. I think they could probably have an extra feature in there too to spice things up, as to what I dunno. Guess we'll leave that to product dev to decide

[peterkadar]

Good points CTRLSHFT.

I don't know how much new budding producers or teen aged garage band players are aware of the differences, but I DO suspect that many more people over the years are learning the benefits of analog. This is a trend even in recorded music sales. Kids now are buying more vinyl albums than ever. The individually owned and operated record stores I visit tell me that the kids don't buy CDs... they're going back to analog. And not just hip hop DJs either.

Pretty interesting, but maybe a bit OT.

Nonetheless, I think greater analog awareness is permeating the synth market too. When I was teaching, I had kids asking about Voyagers and Poly Evolvers and Studio Electronics stuff probably 25% of the time. How cool is that?

And of course, I'm not knocking DSI gear at all. I'm a DSI artist, and I love his synths, and am grateful for what he's doing. I also love Moog stuff. But there is a difference between sound - to me neither good or bad, just different - and build quality. Of course, that's why a Voyager costs what it does, and an 8 voice Prophet '08 costs less. And I have both.

I feel very fortunate that we live in a time where companies like DSI and Moog and now Tom Oberheim are making gear again.

If Moog did a Memorymoog, I'd be all over that even though I own a Prophet. And if Tom did an OB-Xa, I'd be all over that too.

Sorry for getting a bit OT, I just wanted to be clear that I'm not bashing or even preferring one product over another. I love it all!!

[peterkadar]

Oh yeah, one other thing, lol...

I was just looking at my modular moogerfooger/RME rig, and thought that instead of limiting the size of a Dark Energy type instrument to one CP-251 enclosure, they COULD make it like 2 of them stuck together in a rack unit.

What would be cool is if they could duplicate the power supply inputs, one on the 'top', like the CP, and one on the 'bottom'. That way, it could be either rack mounted or used as a tabletop without having to mess with the insides.

That would be a cool box. And the extra space would allow them to add a few extra features, but also use full size knobs, and full size jacks - one of the things I dislike about the Dark Energy is the use of mini jacks.

If they could sell a Micromoog type expander box like that with a simple MIDI implementation, that would be killer!

That format would also interface well with the CP-251, and also if someone had the VX boxes linked up to a Voyager or whatever.

I also think that being a cost effective unit, would balance out Moog's recent high end products like the guitar and the bass pedals.

Hell, they could even be sold to schools teaching synthesis... if such a market still exists...