Interest in CV outputs from Little Phatty? Contact Moog

DeFrag · Post by **DeFrag** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:22 am

I'd like my TE essentially turned into the SE with the USB & these new CV mods Amos speaks about.

I'd definately pay & I think others would as well.

+1

soundxplorer · Post by **soundxplorer** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 am

I'm definitely interested, but money is tight so I'd have to wait and see what the total cost would be (shipping and all).

Also, would it be a "standard package" deal where everyone got the same mods? Or could you offer a buffet list of things and then each person would order the specific ones they want?

Bryan T · Post by **Bryan T** » Thu May 28, 2009 10:49 am

narrowcaster wrote:P.S. If possible, I'd like a breakout box format even more

That makes sense to me, too.

dubphaser · Post by **dubphaser** » Thu May 28, 2009 4:59 pm

Bryan T wrote:
narrowcaster wrote:P.S. If possible, I'd like a breakout box format even more
That makes sense to me, too.

That's the way to go I think. Something like the VX boxes. Just put all available CV in a box. The connector(s) being on the left front vertical space doesn't seem right to me. Maybe replace all the jacks on the left side panel with a DB25 or add the connector(s) to the right panel???

Anyway, CV out would be awesome!

gazer · Post by **gazer** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:11 pm

If Moog could add a vx-351 style breakout box via a db-25 connection or midi, that would be my choice. The vx 351 has 21 open jacks. Probably more than enough. If Moog could hook up as many parameters as possible than can generate voltage control to the vx351 jacks, that is what I would want. Osc 1 out, osc 2 out, envelope filter out, envelope vca out, I would like 2 pitch cv outs, lfo out would be cool, I would like some kind of wave out and in, (probably both oscillators waves),gate out, mod wheel out, pitch wheel out... If Moog would be able to offer this in a field upgrade kit, I know I would be able to spend a lot more on the mod and hopefully get more cv's since I wouldn't have to give hundreds of dollars to UPS for shipping.

Amos · Post by **Amos** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:18 pm

OK, thanks for all the great discussion so far! Keep those ideas coming.

I can't believe I overlooked envelope outputs previously - that's an excellent point. So, I'm thinking the filter env. ouput is definitely on the "short list" of essential signals, and both envelope outputs would be ideal.

Regarding a breakout box format, or the "buffet of options" a la carte idea... these sound nice but anything that increases the complexity of the job will increase the price. A breakout box is a major undertaking compared to wiring up a few jacks, and might be beyond what we could consider as a simple factory modification. I'll think it over.

Going with my original idea, there's room for at most five or six 1/4" jacks in the location I have in mind (front edge of the chassis, under the LHC).

Definitely on the list:

Pitch-CV out
Gate out
Filter Env CV out
Mod Bus CV out

probably on the list:

Amp Env CV out
Mod Wheel CV INPUT

possibly on the list:

Mod Wheel amount output (0v when mod wheel down, 5V when mod wheel at max)
Pitch Bend wheel output
Mixer out/filter in insert jack

Keep in mind, these mods will require individual hand-wiring to all the necessary points on the circuit board, then a new little board made with buffers for all the signals, and possibly some scaling & level-shifting circuits... just a few signals and it's not too difficult to do as a custom mod. Start adding a bunch more signals, then talk about modifying a side panel, building a new breakout box from scratch... this stuff is all nice to imagine, but think about building it all from scratch each time, one at a time, and keep in mind that we charge $85 an hour for custom work. There comes a point where it is no longer economical.

The Voyager was designed from the beginning to have a breakout box, and so all the signals are nicely available on a 20-pin port, ready to go. The Little Phatty was never intended to have CV outputs, so we have to go in and "grab" them one by one from various points in the circuit. This means it will probably never make sense to do a full-scale production run of this mod, which means we probably can't afford to do a super breakout box with every signal you could want.

However, given all these factors, I am more willing to consider an a la carte option where you choose the new I/O options you want from a list of possibilities and we charge per each new jack.

This is all just brainstorming so far... let me know what you think about these ideas.

Cheers,

Amos

Voltor07 · Post by **Voltor07** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:39 pm

Amos, I count 10 jacks from your list. Now, granted, I do not see the need, personally, for all these jacks lining the left side of the pitchwheel and I'm not even sure the vertical portion of the LHC is wide enough to fit 1/4 inch jacks. That little piece of plastic would also have to go for the depth, but I could cut that out with my Dremmel tool. Nor am I prepared to either pay for such an extensive mod or take the 10 hours it would take to do the extensive surgery required.

IMHO, a breakout box of sorts would be the best way to go, especially since the Voyager has two of them, AND a huge amount of in's and out's already. I personally would be willing to pay $500 or $600 for such a device. Just my opinion, of course.

Is there a way to utilize the MIDI OUT jack for such a device? That would be great for me personally, as I never use the MIDI OUT anyway.

CTRLSHFT · Post by **CTRLSHFT** » Thu May 28, 2009 6:45 pm

Amos wrote: However, given all these factors, I am more willing to consider an a la carte option where you choose the new I/O options you want from a list of possibilities and we charge per each new jack.

This seems like a really nice way to go about modding, that way one is only paying for the outs that they want, talk about customization!

As far as pricing is concerned, I'd think $35 per mod + Moog hourly tech fee for $85 seems pretty fair. 6 mods + maybe an 1.5hrs(? totally guessing) = $337.50, which isn't too expensive; It's kind of like buying a VX unit for the LP that's built in; the price is about right.

Hey Amos, while we're on the topic, would a Mod Bus CV (IN) be possible? Modulating the modulator is always a blast.

Amos · Post by **Amos** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:16 pm

Voltor: I'm not sure you understand where I have suggested putting the jacks. Here is a crappy Photoshop image to explain what I had in mind:

As for the rest of your suggestions... A "breakout box of sorts" for a synth that was never designed to have any CV outputs, is enormously more work than wiring up a few jacks.

I am not completely against the breakout box idea... but please trust that I know what I'm talking about when I say it's a big deal to consider such a thing for the LP. The Voyager was designed from the ground up to have such a thing, and the breakout box was designed for volume production.

What I'm discussing for the LP is a hand-wired, one-at-a-time, made from scratch kind of thing. It is on a whole other level than the stuff that Moog spent months engineering for production and manufacturing. That's why I can't promise the moon... I have to be very reasonable about what we're prepared to offer here.

DeFrag · Post by **DeFrag** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:35 pm

My ribbon controller is mounted in front of the TE where those jacks would be.. not to mention some keyboard stands have "lips" or "catches" to keep a 2nd tier register from falling off as it slopes.

How about a custom routed left side panel to accommodate a new jack panel inset toward the front of the left side wood? Could prove fast, easy, & cheap.

Voltor07 · Post by **Voltor07** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm

Amos wrote:Voltor: I'm not sure you understand where I have suggested putting the jacks. Here is a crappy Photoshop image to explain what I had in mind:

As for the rest of your suggestions... A "breakout box of sorts" for a synth that was never designed to have any CV outputs, is enormously more work than wiring up a few jacks...

That makes more sense. Now I will go along with this idea quite readily.

Amos · Post by **Amos** » Thu May 28, 2009 11:55 pm

DeFrag: Good point about multi-tier keyboard stands! I'll think about that.

Custom-routed side panels... hmm. One of my goals is to keep this in the realm of what can be done in our shop, without needing to manufacture any new parts. I want to keep the cost as low as possible. Also, I would prefer a mod that can be done exactly the same for both Tribute and Stage editions.

Bryan T · Post by **Bryan T** » Fri May 29, 2009 12:17 am

Would it make more sense for Moog to make a breakout box that is MIDI-to-CV? Send the signals we want over the MIDI out and have a box that has 8, 12, or 16 CV outputs on it. I think most of the signals folks are wanting are available via MIDI, no?

I know some folks are Luddites when it comes to MIDI (and I'm aware of a lot of MIDI's shortcomings), but a product like this makes sense to me. No shipping of LPs required, no hand-modification of circuits, etc.

Any thoughts?

MarkM · Post by **MarkM** » Fri May 29, 2009 12:51 am

Would the cv upgrade include the Tribute?

soundxplorer · Post by **soundxplorer** » Fri May 29, 2009 10:34 am

Amos wrote:I can't believe I overlooked envelope outputs previously - that's an excellent point. So, I'm thinking the filter env. ouput is definitely on the "short list" of essential signals

YES! Awesome.
You could turn the EG Amount down for the internal filter on the LP, then have the Filter EG signal going out to an external filter for different colors.
It would be great combined with a Frostwave Resonator for example.
Now I'm really excited.