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minitaur headphone feedback loop?

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minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby soundsubs » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:12 am

the first thing i did when i got the minitaur is to run the headphone output back into the audio input jack.
anything wrong with this?
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby muksys » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:15 am

not at all. Same trick that was used on the Minimoog Model D to overdrive the filter. Same principle behind the "overload" circuit found on the LP/SP. I don't have 1/8" to 1/4" jacks at the moment. Let us know if it is worth getting one!
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby SSquirrel » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:11 pm

It's also the Brute knob of the upcoming Arturia Minibrute. It also works on your iPad w/the Korg iMS-20.


muksys wrote:I don't have 1/8" to 1/4" jacks at the moment. Let us know if it is worth getting one!


I ordered a couple of packs of Eurorack 1/8" cables and I already have several 1/8" to 1/4" jack adapters sitting around. I'm going to be using my Minibrute to control my Minitaur once I get them both. I refuse to pay 5 or 6 bucks a cable for one that has the different sizes at either end heh.
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby muksys » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:39 pm

SSquirrel wrote:It's also the Brute knob of the upcoming Arturia Minibrute. It also works on your iPad w/the Korg iMS-20.


muksys wrote:I don't have 1/8" to 1/4" jacks at the moment. Let us know if it is worth getting one!

I refuse to pay 5 or 6 bucks a cable for one that has the different sizes at either end heh.

agreed. I've got the jacks, just to lazy to solder em at the moment.
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby Voltor07 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:32 pm

muksys wrote:agreed. I've got the jacks, just to lazy to solder em at the moment.


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=092-153

This would be my personal starting point. Too lazy to solder does not describe me at all. The three tubes of solder on my workbench can attest to that. :lol: Muksys, if you need some help, send me the plugs and cables you have and I will solder them myself. If you don't have cable, I'll just charge you 68 cents a foot for mine. Soldering is free. :) Send me a PM if interested. That goes for anyone on here, as well. Just don't ask me to do much more than make cables...that's the only free service I offer. :wink:
Sub 37 #000068, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, QSC GX-3, Miracle Piano, Taurus III #0030, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Voltor box V.1.0&2.0, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby EricK » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:13 pm

soundsubs wrote:the first thing i did when i got the minitaur is to run the headphone output back into the audio input jack.
anything wrong with this?


On the Voyager we are advised against this due to an impedance mismatch. You would be wise to research this further before continuing with this method.
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby muksys » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:40 pm

Voltor07 wrote:
muksys wrote:agreed. I've got the jacks, just to lazy to solder em at the moment.


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=092-153

This would be my personal starting point. Too lazy to solder does not describe me at all. The three tubes of solder on my workbench can attest to that. :lol: Muksys, if you need some help, send me the plugs and cables you have and I will solder them myself. If you don't have cable, I'll just charge you 68 cents a foot for mine. Soldering is free. :) Send me a PM if interested. That goes for anyone on here, as well. Just don't ask me to do much more than make cables...that's the only free service I offer. :wink:


Thanks for the offer, but I'm good. I love soldering! I spend a lot of time building synths and effects, but when it comes to making cables...blaahhhhh. :lol:
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby muksys » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:44 pm

EricK wrote:
soundsubs wrote:the first thing i did when i got the minitaur is to run the headphone output back into the audio input jack.
anything wrong with this?


On the Voyager we are advised against this due to an impedance mismatch. You would be wise to research this further before continuing with this method.


Is this in the Voyager manual? I just looked through the Minitaur Manual and it not heed any warning against routing the headphone out to the audio in.
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby Voltor07 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:20 pm

muksys wrote:Thanks for the offer, but I'm good. I love soldering! I spend a lot of time building synths and effects, but when it comes to making cables...blaahhhhh. :lol:


I understand. I'm on a cable kick lately, building cables for my own modular. I'm not about to spend $300 on cables for a modular that costs $3000. That's just silly. :roll: I can make cables in my sleep, and I've been doing that lately, with excellent results.
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby soundsubs » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:11 am

On the Voyager we are advised against this due to an impedance mismatch. You would be wise to research this further before continuing with this method.


>>>i THINK this actually turned out to be a couple misunderstandings in a row? i think moog wanted to be sure that people were plugging the right type cable into the headphone/insert.
i think the problem was that if you plug a balanced 1/4" jack into both, you'll get unruly feedback and could cause some mayhem because you'd get an output going INTO the headphone jack and back out.
not even sure why that would be a problem--- but i did it with a mono cable a billion times before i googled it and it never caused me any issue on my RME.

i just wanted to get an official blessing for this, since i noted that the headphone jack was 1/8th inch, and i thought maybe they had done it like that on purpose?

the more info we have, the better.
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby muksys » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:47 am

soundsubs wrote:
On the Voyager we are advised against this due to an impedance mismatch. You would be wise to research this further before continuing with this method.


>>>i THINK this actually turned out to be a couple misunderstandings in a row? i think moog wanted to be sure that people were plugging the right type cable into the headphone/insert.
i think the problem was that if you plug a balanced 1/4" jack into both, you'll get unruly feedback and could cause some mayhem because you'd get an output going INTO the headphone jack and back out.
not even sure why that would be a problem--- but i did it with a mono cable a billion times before i googled it and it never caused me any issue on my RME.

i just wanted to get an official blessing for this, since i noted that the headphone jack was 1/8th inch, and i thought maybe they had done it like that on purpose?

the more info we have, the better.


When I tried it on my MT, it was 1/8" TRS to 2 1/4" TS. Plugged it in and everything was good to go. This should be totally fine. My guess for the 1/8" headphone jack was simply because there isn't enough real estate for another 1/4".
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby Portamental » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:56 am

muksys wrote:My guess for the 1/8" headphone jack was simply because there isn't enough real estate for another 1/4".


A good reason in the case of the Minitaur, but almost all pro Headphones have now switched to 1/8 plugs, and all new all MP3-computer-guitar pedals-controllers have switched to 1/8 inch jacks too. Expect the 1/4 inch plug for headphones to become obsolete for all but a few select products.
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby EricK » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:47 am

soundsubs wrote:
On the Voyager we are advised against this due to an impedance mismatch. You would be wise to research this further before continuing with this method.


>>>i THINK this actually turned out to be a couple misunderstandings in a row? i think moog wanted to be sure that people were plugging the right type cable into the headphone/insert.
i think the problem was that if you plug a balanced 1/4" jack into both, you'll get unruly feedback and could cause some mayhem because you'd get an output going INTO the headphone jack and back out.
not even sure why that would be a problem--- but i did it with a mono cable a billion times before i googled it and it never caused me any issue on my RME.

i just wanted to get an official blessing for this, since i noted that the headphone jack was 1/8th inch, and i thought maybe they had done it like that on purpose?

the more info we have, the better.


No, there is no misunderstandig here. I don't recall this actually being in the manual but I have seen GregAE and Amos both implicitly state that there is an impedance mismatch between the headphone jack and the audio input. While this seems like the easiest method to create this effect, one has to wonder why it isn't listed in the articles on Knob Tweak about overloading the audio input.

Ive done it before on my Voyager, but not after I heard that it will eventually cause the audio input circuit to blow.

Any kind of impedance mismatch is generally going to make bad things happen eventually.
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby SSquirrel » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:00 pm

Voltor07 wrote:I can make cables in my sleep, and I've been doing that lately, with excellent results.


Sleep-soldering doesn't sound the safest, but if it gives good results.... :)


As far as headphones go, I bought a pair of Shure HRS440s and they're 1/8", but come w/a threaded 1/4" adapter that screws on. Pretty convenient
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Re: minitaur headphone feedback loop?

Postby Voltor07 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:40 pm

SSquirrel wrote:
Sleep-soldering doesn't sound the safest, but if it gives good results.... :)


As far as headphones go, I bought a pair of Shure HRS440s and they're 1/8", but come w/a threaded 1/4" adapter that screws on. Pretty convenient


I've fallen asleep in my workroom a couple times this week. I've woken up to find completed cables I don't recall finishing. Strange, but not unusual for me. Haven't burned myself yet, and the iron always is unplugged when I wake up. :?

Most pro headphones are going the route you describe. I wish they did sooner. 1/8" adapters add too much length to the plug, and they break jacks very easily. Especially when used with portable devices.
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