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New Taurus 3 Video - Critical Listenng Tests

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Postby jamezdd73 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:45 pm

EricK wrote:I wouldn't count on them making a second run of the Taurus III, that would be kind of crappy if they did because if they advertise a "One and only one Run" of a product, and then made a second run, they would be pulling a roland. I know that might sound unfair to those who couldn't jump on the opportunity to get one, but it would bust their marketing integrity a little bit perhaps. It would make people see the next item and hold out rather than impulsively buy them like some of us who made preorders did.


Eric


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Little Phatty meant to be only be released the Tribute Editions originally? Then the popularity brought about the Stage addition? Again, I can't remember where I read this, but I'm pretty sure this was the case. So they've done it before anyway...
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Postby HB3 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:39 pm

Did they advertise it as "one and only one"?
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Postby HB3 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:44 pm

There's some nice words from Cyril Lance on the T3 product page.
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Postby superd2112 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:47 pm

HB3 wrote:Did they advertise it as "one and only one"?


I think the better question is, "Have you ordered yours yet?" I'm willing to bet that by the end of the NAMM Show, there won't be a single set of Taurus 3s available for sale anywhere. The few remaining unspoken-for sets may even get snatched up by the end of the day tomorrow, and it is very possible that there will be no more made.
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Postby HB3 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:52 pm

I ordered mine approximately five minutes after the announcement. :wink:

I could sort of see the point if they'd said it was to be their only run, but I can't recall seeing this anywhere. Still and all, though, yeah, I don't think it would really be held against them.
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Postby EricK » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:39 pm

Pulling from my Vague memory, when the LP was released, I think that they said that only so many TRIBUTE editions would be made and that a cheaper stage edition would follow.

I could be wrong. Its really not that big of a deal now that ive thought about it a little more.

THe LP though was supposed to allow for more people to use Moog gear, it was never intended to be a limited run. Doesn't that make sence?


I think to introduce a new instrument and say that no more runs would be built implicates that no more runs would be built.


I do specifically remember on the initial page that they wrote that there would only be one and only one run. The whole thing was marketed as an extremely limited edition in the first place.

They are of corse free to change their minds. I think that if they had demand for it they would be crazy not to make more. All the R&D is done.

I wouldn't hold them against it either, but it would be pretty wierd if they said were only making 1 run and then make more runs.

As long as I get mine, Ill be very very happy.



The comments on the homepage are nice. I think NAMM will give us some more videos, maybe get the best in show award or something. The only thing thats left is the manual, which Im dying to see.

Id like to se either a rackmounted version or a Fooger version of the filter.

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Postby EricK » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:45 pm

Interestingly, it reads "We are producing LESS than 1000 of these units." Thats a new one on me.

I remember when the announcement was made I told my friends that there was only going to be 1000 made, with only 1 run, with preorder prices cheaper than the prices after a certian cutoff date. My strategy was to wait until they were all sold out and put it on ebay, and try to get the 3000 price that the Taurus 1's were getting at that time. But, because I realized later that that would effectively make me an ebay rapist that I despise so much, and that these pedals were going to be unique, I changed my mind.
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Postby EMwhite » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:47 am

EricK wrote:Pulling from my Vague memory, when the LP was released, I think that they said that only so many TRIBUTE editions would be made and that a cheaper stage edition would follow.

I could be wrong. Its really not that big of a deal now that ive thought about it a little more.

THe LP though was supposed to allow for more people to use Moog gear, it was never intended to be a limited run. Doesn't that make sence?


I think to introduce a new instrument and say that no more runs would be built implicates that no more runs would be built.


I do specifically remember on the initial page that they wrote that there would only be one and only one run. The whole thing was marketed as an extremely limited edition in the first place.

They are of corse free to change their minds. I think that if they had demand for it they would be crazy not to make more. All the R&D is done.

I wouldn't hold them against it either, but it would be pretty wierd if they said were only making 1 run and then make more runs.

As long as I get mine, Ill be very very happy.



The comments on the homepage are nice. I think NAMM will give us some more videos, maybe get the best in show award or something. The only thing thats left is the manual, which Im dying to see.

Id like to se either a rackmounted version or a Fooger version of the filter.

Eric


I bought the LP Tribute party because it was a "tribute", but also because it was limited run, wood sides, had/has class. I don't regret it one bit and have since taken it (in person) to Moog in Asheville (the promised land), gotten the 2.1T upgrade and CV out added. It has been a great journey.

Moog has since sold multiple thousands of LPs in the various flavors and good for them.

I posted something in another forum about product development and limited runs, etc. It's really tough these days. When I was 18 and the DX-7 was around (and later the Korg DW6000?), people were buying these higher end synths like hot cakes. Those days are long gone. Sure there were super high end products like the Kurzweil, Fairlite, Synergy, etc etc but these were the Moogs of the day when Moog wasn't in business making synths. The diff is that it wasn't American ingenuity and manufacturing and consumers that appreciate everything that comes out of that factory in Asheville. It was Chinese made mass produced (well... Japanese in those days) and they sold like hot cakes. Subsidized by massive conglomerates, profit margins were modest and they made it up in quantity, ten fold.

Not so today and not so for Moog.

Where am I going with this rant? I really, truly hope that Taurus sells out. I don't anticipate ever parting with mine (in fact, I want my 11 month old to inherit ALL of my Moog gear some 50 years from now) but greatness aside, I have a sneaking feeling that they'll get a few (several) hundred and demand will taper off.

Has nothing to do with a lack of greatness, it's a niche and a somewhat pricey one. I would have paid another $500 likely for these (and I paid the full $2,000) but most are content to get a set of cheap Midi pedals and call it a day.

Would love to be wrong and have to say, that last video kicked my ass. Really nice work guys. Not looking for brownie points here but I have to say that Amos is an asset to the product development team, some side of his being the 'new kid' and living this stuff is bringing automation, Midi (ironic, isn't it) and applicability to many different styles of music. That arpeggiated transpose that he "got workin'" in the last vid is super.

Keep up the good work guys and I hope for much success. I traded emails with one of the guys in Marketing and was told that they really had a great year and that's saying an awful lot in this day and age.

-Mike W. from NJ
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Postby superd2112 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:07 am

EricK wrote:
As long as I get mine, Ill be very very happy.

Eric


And thats the bottom line for me as well!

p.s. = Nice last post, Mike W. from NJ - well put, and I share many of those heart-felt sentiments as well.
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Postby EricK » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:26 am

Mike,
Well said.

Chris Stack told me in an email that they are in a unique position because they are such a small company, yet they have worldwide acclaim. Not too many other Ma and Pa companies can share that sentiment.


What you are saying about the market is absolutely right. I figure that it goes like this.

It starts with keyboard players of all types
Then you have electronic keyboards
then you have synthesizers
then analog synthesizers (mono and poly)
Then Modular Synthesizers
Bass Pedal Synthesizers.

I believe that in each descending tier, the market shrinks considerably. Part of the problem with the particular market for Moogs, I believe, is their entry level price points. If you think about how many people out there want to play music, but don't have the money for an entry level (300-400) instrument, Moog is not in their sights. 3000 for a Voyager is a considerable amount, that eliminates a vast majority of potential buyers right off the bat. THe Phatty changes this, but still 1200 is A LOT of money in times like these, with the prevalance of cheaper analogue modeling and software synths.

Music production equipment is probably cheaper and widely available than at any point in its history, but the cheapest Moogerfooger is almost the price of a beginners level instrument. Compared to the number of people who are buying any general electronic keyboard instruments, there is a small fraction of those buying Modular synths. Probably a fraction of the people buying modulars are actually considering the need for a bass pedal synthesizer. I might be from Arkansas, but Ive been studying music for 15 years and I haven't seen all that many bass pedal synthesizers being used. It just seems like so many because we are all concentrated on these and other forums.

This is why I have a tendancy to think that Moog chose the 1000 unit mark for a reason, and have now shrunk that to LESS than 1000. They probably have a much better idea about their market than I certianly do, and they know exactly how many people petitioned them to make one. I think Mike Adams and Cyril Lance both expressed suprise in the enthusiasm generated by this instrument, but if you remember back when the announcement was first made, there was great speculation that they wouldn't even get the initial orders in to make the project a go.

I could be totally wrong about this, but if they want to do another run of the Taurus pedals, let them have it. I have been rethinking my earlier statements on this matter.


I will say with a degree of confidence that they will probably make modifications available once they get our units shipped. Pitch output would be my first choice. Audio Input on the filter would be my second.

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Postby Mr Arkadin » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:38 am

What i don't want to see is a new run of Taurus 3s with lots of extra features that the early adopters can't have. That would be irritating in the extreme.
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Postby MC » Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:16 pm

You guys will not be disappointed.

During my visit with Moog I asked Cyril many questions to how faithful the T3 circuit is to the original. We are both EEs and are keenly interested in the sonics of circuitry. Cyril was fanatical about disecting the T1 and did a helluva job replicating the sound of the original. I was listening for the filter, for the slope of the envelopes, for that 20hz corner boost inherent in the AC coupling between the VCF and VCA, for the subtle overdrive of the VCF - everything.

We put a lot of effort in duplicating the T1 presets as they are popular sounds that Taurus enthusiasts are expecting to hear. The Echo Mountain studio was a great asset as they had excellent monitors where you could really hear the fine details in the timbre. There was a lot of A/B testing between the T3 and my T1 pedals. When the presets were matched, we nailed the sound. And that is not a comment I use lightly. I'm as critical as they come when it comes to comparision to the T1; I tried to replicate "that sound" on my gear for YEARS.

I suggested that we use subwoofers for the critical listening test because that is where the T1 breathes fire. I have a PA at home with four subwoofers loaded with 18s so I knew what to listen for - and without a doubt those subsonics were in the T3. I heard later that when we were playing around in the test room, the rest of the factory could FEEL the bass. We're talking about a textile mill which is a stiff structure. The test room is a good hundred feet from the factory floor. If the T3s can produce strong waves like that, that's a good thing.

A lot of folks at the factory was anxious about the T3 and was elated with my assessment the T3 was an accurate clone of the original. It delivers.

I was also interested what the T3 could achieve beyond the T1. I really liked the resonant color of the filter and Cyril said he put a lot of effort to get it to sound good. The resonance color resembles my Moog Source, which I also brought with me for sound design. That's a good thing because I've gotten a lot of good bass sounds out of the Source. I tried some lead sounds - at moderate resonance they sound like the 904A from the modular, that nice creamy resonance. The T1 filter was originally lifted from the 904A.

While I am not normally an arppegiator user, their implementation in the T3 is really practical in that you can set the notes with your feet, and then you can transpose the pattern with your feet. That data knob under the LCD is an endless rotary encoder with a pushbutton action integrated into the control. I have long wanted a MIDI interface for the T1 and there wasn't a decent one available. With MIDI being standard in the T3, it becomes a 21st century Taurus. Amos did a great job on the firmware.

This is a good sounding box - you're gonna like it.

Oh I wasn't supposed to say this under NDA but that metal bar is actually for wiping the mud off your shoes :D
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Postby latigid on » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:19 pm

It really sounds like the T3s were a labour of love -- something you don't see too often these days. Thanks for your input and assessment.
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Postby EricK » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:32 pm

So that was you in the video, the Taurus Enthusiast?

And....with that bottom end are you sure that is Mud?


MC,
If you are a Taurus afficianado, then please share with us your secrets of amplification.

Eric
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Postby MC » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:05 pm

Yes that was me in the video.

My amplification secrets? It is best to seek advice from colleagues in the field, not the salesman in the store. The salesman makes his $$$ on commission - salesman are not always musicians and the best commission does not always come from quality equipment.
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