sorry, this is probably a dumb question that's been asked a lot but i'm new to synthesis and considering buying a moogerfooger. i have a cheap, cheesy roland RS-09 string synth that makes some kind of interesting bassy sounds and takes to pedals alright, for what i can afford. i'd like to expand its capabilities and was hoping that the cp-251 might let me add some filtering and modulation to it. the roland only has a 'gate' out control. i don't really understand cv/gate, so if someone could tell me if they're the same thing and this would work with the moogerfooger, i'd really appreciate it. if there's somewhere online that i could read about the difference between cv/gate i'd appreciate it. i'm under the impression that gate is control voltage out, and CV is the in. are they two different ways of sending control signals?
a quick reply would be helpful. thanks a lot,
brian
cp251 cv/gate control, please explain
CV & Gate
Hey dude,
CV is a pretty general term. I think for your purposes it's useful to think of a gate signal as a particular kind of CV signal. They are usually very simple in that it's at 0V when there is no key being pressed on the keyboard and at 5V (or whatever is the standard for Roalnd) when there is any key being pressed and it stays high for as long as the key is pressed. Gate signals usually tell amplifiers when to make sound be heard, since it's when you are pressing the key.
One thing to beware of or at least find out about is what the CV/Gate standards are for Roland. 5V? 10V? I'll bet someone else on this forum knows the answer to that question. Sometimes, (Korg, for example) Gate signals go negative instead of positive (Gate on = 0V Gate off = 5?V) so that may be a little different to work with. Although even if the standards are completely different, you might still be able to have some fun with the CV signals through the CP-251 since it has inverters and offsets and lags and everything else. Though if you are looking for filtering, the CP-251 alone will not give it to you. It is just for modulating control voltage signals of different kinds in different ways.
This is getting a little more complicated, but another way to think of CV vs. Gate: CV=Note Value (pitch) and Gate=Note On/Off. For example on my Frostwave Fat Controller (or on a CV capable keybard controller), there CV outs and Gate outs. If I had only the CV outs connected to an oscillator or other sound making device then it would just make sound all the time and the pitches would change according to what the CV value was. Or it would make no sound at all depending on how the amplifier section was set up. And if I had only the Gate signal connected the note value would stay the same and you would just hear the same note every time any key was pressed. Of course CV can also be used from an LFO to control filter cutoff or whatver. Let's not get too far into that.
I hope that is clear and helpful. The term CV gets thrown around in different ways and can have different meanings depending on the context. Feel free to ask for clarification, I could blab about this sh*t for days.
Tune in next week for more inrofmation about Envelope Generators.
No, only kidding.
R
CV is a pretty general term. I think for your purposes it's useful to think of a gate signal as a particular kind of CV signal. They are usually very simple in that it's at 0V when there is no key being pressed on the keyboard and at 5V (or whatever is the standard for Roalnd) when there is any key being pressed and it stays high for as long as the key is pressed. Gate signals usually tell amplifiers when to make sound be heard, since it's when you are pressing the key.
One thing to beware of or at least find out about is what the CV/Gate standards are for Roland. 5V? 10V? I'll bet someone else on this forum knows the answer to that question. Sometimes, (Korg, for example) Gate signals go negative instead of positive (Gate on = 0V Gate off = 5?V) so that may be a little different to work with. Although even if the standards are completely different, you might still be able to have some fun with the CV signals through the CP-251 since it has inverters and offsets and lags and everything else. Though if you are looking for filtering, the CP-251 alone will not give it to you. It is just for modulating control voltage signals of different kinds in different ways.
This is getting a little more complicated, but another way to think of CV vs. Gate: CV=Note Value (pitch) and Gate=Note On/Off. For example on my Frostwave Fat Controller (or on a CV capable keybard controller), there CV outs and Gate outs. If I had only the CV outs connected to an oscillator or other sound making device then it would just make sound all the time and the pitches would change according to what the CV value was. Or it would make no sound at all depending on how the amplifier section was set up. And if I had only the Gate signal connected the note value would stay the same and you would just hear the same note every time any key was pressed. Of course CV can also be used from an LFO to control filter cutoff or whatver. Let's not get too far into that.
I hope that is clear and helpful. The term CV gets thrown around in different ways and can have different meanings depending on the context. Feel free to ask for clarification, I could blab about this sh*t for days.
Tune in next week for more inrofmation about Envelope Generators.
No, only kidding.
R
thanks, that helps. it sounds like with my keyboard i would be able to make some noise and stuff, which would be fun, but i couldn't control pitch because of not having a CV out-- so if there were going to be pitch changes that would all come from whatever filtering the moogerfooger can do. thanks for the info. i'm probably going to be getting a better keyboard soon, so maybe whatever i end up with will be more useful in conjunction w/ the cp251. with what i have now i'm not sure it would be a good investment (i'm not going to stop wanting a synth that has more options just because i buy the cp251, at this point.)
b
b
Hey, i have an RS-09 and the CP251.
The CP251 i use in conjunction with the other Moogerfoogers and other modular stuff i have, but i will tell you now that the CP251 will be of very little use to you if you are thinking of buying it to just use in conjunction with the RS-09.
The RS's gate out has basically been included to use in conjunction with an external synthesizer that has the ability of having it's internal filter envelope triggered (gate in) which will enable you to impart the shape of the external synth's filter onto the RS-09 while ever you have a key pressed down.
Now the CP does not have filtering and it does not have an envelope generator for triggering, so apart from a phase invertion trick there is nothing else you can use on the CP to modulate the RS.
So you now need to be looking for an external synth with a gate in feature and Roland actually recommend the Roland SH-09 monosynth to use in conjunction with the RS-09 in their original brochure, but any synth with a Gate in feature will do, and you then have the ability of filtering the RS-09 and turn into a polyphonic synthesizer.
Hope this helps.
Jiggz
The CP251 i use in conjunction with the other Moogerfoogers and other modular stuff i have, but i will tell you now that the CP251 will be of very little use to you if you are thinking of buying it to just use in conjunction with the RS-09.
The RS's gate out has basically been included to use in conjunction with an external synthesizer that has the ability of having it's internal filter envelope triggered (gate in) which will enable you to impart the shape of the external synth's filter onto the RS-09 while ever you have a key pressed down.
Now the CP does not have filtering and it does not have an envelope generator for triggering, so apart from a phase invertion trick there is nothing else you can use on the CP to modulate the RS.
So you now need to be looking for an external synth with a gate in feature and Roland actually recommend the Roland SH-09 monosynth to use in conjunction with the RS-09 in their original brochure, but any synth with a Gate in feature will do, and you then have the ability of filtering the RS-09 and turn into a polyphonic synthesizer.
Hope this helps.
Jiggz
"Maybe Digital will get closer to analog in time, but it'll never be exactly the same".
Dr. R Moog
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.07/play.html?pg=2
Dr. R Moog
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.07/play.html?pg=2
