DSI Mopho Keyboard vs. Moog Little Phatty

[Kenneth]

Many of you have probably read or heard about the recently released Dave Smith Instruments Mopho Keyboard. I'm a Little Phatty owner and I wanted to know what the Mopho is like in comparison to the LP.

1. I know the DSI Evolver has kind of a crappy filter sweep function, as you can hear the filter open (or close) in steps, like a digital synth would do. Does this happen with the Mopho as well?

2. The Little Phatty has some great live control features. The fact that I don't ever have to scroll through layered menus to tweak the parameter I want makes the LP the best synth I've ever had. What kind of menu interface does the Mopho have? Little to no menu use is preferred, but Moog does the whole menu thing really well on analog synths.

3. What do the oscillators/ filters sound like in comparison to the LP's? I love the warm, fat sound the LP produces, and I want to know if the Mopho is capable of producing similar sounds, and if they're different, what does it sound like in comparison?

[Nillerbabs]

Before taking in all my answers, please note the that I never played the Mopho keyboard - I'm just interested in this "vs" subject, just like you

1. I know the DSI Evolver has kind of a crappy filter sweep function, as you can hear the filter open (or close) in steps, like a digital synth would do. Does this happen with the Mopho as well?

I would say no. The Mopho uses fine potentiometres as opposed to the Evolver encoders.

2. The Little Phatty has some great live control features. The fact that I don't ever have to scroll through layered menus to tweak the parameter I want makes the LP the best synth I've ever had. What kind of menu interface does the Mopho have? Little to no menu use is preferred, but Moog does the whole menu thing really well on analog synths.

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/ ... xlarge.jpg

In the picture you'll notice the small matrix to the right of the screen and the inc/dec buttons. Features like osc sync, voice volume, osc slop (a feature that makes for quite a desirable synth) and settings for envelope 3 are to be edited via the screen. Most likely the sequencer as well. Aside from these, most vital synth parametres plus a few extras seem well represented on the front panel. Even though this interface is ideal for sound design, I can hardly imagine an interface more well-suited for live use than the LP's. I'd choose this for a monosynth any day and save the knobby design for a polyvoice multi-purpose synth like the P'08.

3. What do the oscillators/ filters sound like in comparison to the LP's? I love the warm, fat sound the LP produces, and I want to know if the Mopho is capable of producing similar sounds, and if they're different, what does it sound like in comparison?

My general impression from audio and other people is that the Mopho is more aggressive/direct and less lush sounding. Even tough the pole settings on the Mopho allow for a less harsh filter character, there is no way the curtis filter will ever match the organity and sweetness of the Moog ladder filter. I suppose it's a matter of what you want. My impression is that the overdrive cirquit on the Moog is far better and more organic than the feedback cirquit in the Mopho. However, some argue that the Moog filter cripples the LP, in that you cannot escape "that Moog sound".

Speaking of arguing, there's been some discussion of DCO's versus VCO's. The Moog oscillators really sound great, but as you know there are inconveniences in having VCO's - warmup, tuning etc. Every time I've played the Prophet I've been amazed with the versatility of the oscillators. Being digitally controlled, they can be super tight, but the slop function allows for some sweet instability and drift.


Despite all the sweet advantages of the Mopho, I'd definitely take the Moog over it... as soon as it does what I need it to. It's a matter of sound and... errm... aesthetics. It's beautiful and bloody kewl, and I instantly fell in love with the sound of the Moog - this I attribute to the filter. However, aftertouch-sensitivity is what makes the Mopho attractive, and I won't be giving Moog my money before an aftertouch-sensitive version of the LP is out.

[XikwriNeyrra]

yes, i have bouth of them, but mopho rack, and respect the sound, i think mopho have like an electric-aggressive-texture sound, but the problem with the step-turning cutoff knob you say really sux, i have to use Moogerfooger LP Filter to make good manual wha-wah's. LP have a beatyfull, smooth, high-accuracy, perfect knob like all the knobs it have in his body.

Respect to ext. in i think LP make a better process, specially the big fat gain you obtain with the overload knob.
In personal opinion, Mopho is to get a different texture in your music, but im thinking to change it for DSI Tetr4 to play polyphonic. But if u love to tweak parameters and have a clean fat experimental sound, for sure if i were in a desert island i prefer to be with my LP SII than with Mopho! greetings

[EMwhite]

Ultimately, a patch stored within the Phatty is stored digitally, which is to say that the setting of each knob (the fine or 'precision' parameter value as Moog calls it) is stored in the Patch and it's recalled to 'set' each voltage controlled component on what would be considered the 'analog board' of a voyager.

One of the biggest differences between what Moog does and what many others (not all, but most), is that they use a) super high end potentiometers vs. low cost encoders; albeit only four of them; and b) an analog to digital control interface that is 12 bit [0..4095] in resolution (vs. 7 bit [0..127] and that order of magnitude difference is very noticeable on the latter.

I have a few 1980's Oberheim pieces (Matrix 6, a 6r, a Matrix 1000) and much like my year old Korg Radias, use the 'Midi standard' 7-bit 0..127 which as you've learned, suffers from noticeable stepping.

The Midi specification offers a high resolution 14 bit mode but it's rarely implemented (the Taurus III does, however [see pg. 50 in the manual for details and a note to this effect]). Without it, a mapped CC will step a hi-res Moog parameter (Taurus III's Filter Cutoff for instance, 32 for each '1' of 0..127 resolution aka stepping).
.

[Sir Nose]

The LP stage and stage II send and receive 14-bit midi for the filter cutoff and the mod wheel (OS 2.0 and later). Also, the filter cutoff is not changed over to a digital signal for internal control. That is where Moog's RAC (Real Analog Control) technology comes in. There is a difference in sweeping the filter with midi compared to sweeping the filter with the knob or CV. In the stage and stage II, I think there is one other parameter with RAC, Amp decay I think. On the tribute there are more parameters that are RAC than in the stage editions. The technology is proprietary and I have not ever seen it fully explained. So, maybe there is some sort of digital aspect at a very high resolution.

edit: In the stage and stage II RAC controls include: Osc 1 & 2, Filter Cutoff, Filter Resonance, EG Amount, Overload and Filter EG Sustain. I am not sure what in OSC 1 & 2 is RAC. I would guess the waveform, but the LP manual does not specify. Pitch would make sense, but you can only control the freq of OSC 2.

[Agostino]

In Italy there's a music store called Scolopendra, which had made a comparison between a Moog Little Phatty Stage and a Dave Smith Instruments Evolver Keyboard.
here's the Google translation of the page http://translate.google.it/translate?js ... l=it&tl=en
The Dave Smith has better oscillators, but the Moog has a better Low Pass Filter (seems obvious, the Moog Filter is legend...)
I prefer the Moog...
greetings

[Krinor]

I have owned two LP's. Both the Stage I and II. The last one was a LP Stage II Blue Led which had some issues with osc 2, so I returned it. Since there was a long wait before the next batch of LP's would arrive I asked to have it replaced with the newly arrived Mopho Keyoard. I thought it would be interesting to try it out anyway. I don't regret it. The Mopho is obviousy designed to undercut the Phatty (There's a preset in there called "Skinny Phatty" - sounding almost exactely like a Phatty). The Mopho does just that. It is a lot cheaper (at least in my country), and in terms of features it blows the Phatty out of the water ( For example: The Mopho Keyboard has the possibillity of using 22 modulation sources and can route them to - brace yourself - 48 destinations!) But there is a tradeoff; You don't get "that Moog sound". Personally I love the sound of the Moog ladder filter and I guess, ironically, I will have to tack on a Moogerfoooger Low Pass filter after the Mopho for those 70's lead type sounds, or better still; Get another Phatty to rub shoulders with the Mopho. The Mopho has a sequencer in addition to the arpeggiator so I might just use it for textures ala Tangerine Dream and then do leads on top with the Phatty. For live use the Phatty is probably one of the best analog synths ever - because of the (relatively) low price (I wouldn't dare to take a Voyager out for fear of someone stealing it), the led indicators and the excellent layout. The Mopho falls somewhat short in this respect, but it is lighter, cheaper, more stable, doesn't require warm up... and it can even do some Moog-like sounds if required ("Skinny Phatty" anyone ?) In the end I guess this is a little bit like a Mac vs PC or even Fender vs Gibson sort of thing... Some will love the Mopho for it's snappy, sharp sounds while others will loathe it for the same. Personally I like about one tenth of the presets, and these all sound somewhat Moogish. So maybe I'm just on a little vacation, synthwise...?


Edit: I forgot to mention the sub oscillators on the Mopho. If the Phatty had had even just ONE sub oscillator it could do some really convincing Model D sounds. As it is now the Mopho Keyboard IMO actually does this better than the Phatty (apart from the obviously lacking ladder filter). So if Amos or anyone else at Moog reads this: How about a sub oscillator feature for a future Little Phatty OS update ? Would this even be possible ?

[Krinor]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I thought I'd just share some additional Mopho vs Phatty thoughts.
Since my last post my Mopho has remained standing absolutely still, quiet and off. I sold it yesterday. It is simply a badly laid out synth with maybe too many features jam packed into it's yellow shell. To me it felt too complicated to operate musically. Too un-intuitive. I constantly put all my fingers down on it when I played it. It really feels like a polysynth with only mono capability. Sounds DCO'ish in a bad way.
I'm getting a new Phatty tomorrow.

[Solenoid]

Mopho keyboard is a fantastic synth and can compete really well with my LP. Of course it has a much different sound character (it's more aggresive) but it's very phat and lush too! It has pots (not encoders) and there is absolutely no filter stepping. It's menu layout is quite good and it never causes flaw problems as you program sounds...