Synth Comparison Methods

[_DemonDan_]

I'm using this YouTube video (a link used by Blackout to make a point in a recent post) to start a discussion on how we can best create synth comparison videos and audio examples.

I'm using this video only because it has several examples of methods that could be improved, not because I'm complaining about this video. (Anything people make that lets the world hear something they don't have access to is useful. I'm just hoping we can discuss how to make them even more useful.)

Minimoog Model D vs Moog Voyager Comparison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cTZo0qUlK8

1) Use identical performances for each synth.
@ 1:13 a single note is played for each of the basic waveshapes on the Voyager
@ 1:49 a single note is played for each of the basic waveshapes on the Model D
- But one octave lower!

Ideally, some type of sequence should be used so that the performances are identical for each synth. Baring that, every effort should be made to hand play the exact same phrase.

2) Use your ears to match parameter values, not front panel graphics or o'clock positions.
If you're matching a synth with switchable waveshapes vs. a synth with variable waveshapes, use your ears to find the closest possible match by carefully tweaking the variable waveshape.

Too often I see comparisons (of synths, stomp boxes, etc) where parameters with the same name on both devices are set to the same physical position (like straight up, 12 o'clock) or to the same number or graphic symbol. For countless electronic reasons, the physical position of a potentiometer on devices made by two different companies, or in two different decades (or millennium) will rarely be the exact right positions for an accurate comparison.

Then, the YouTube comments get filled with declarative observations that would disappear (or even be reversed) had one of the knobs been moved slightly more in one direction or the other.

It's only AFTER everything is set to make the two devices as similar as possible can we truly start to analyze any actual differences.

3) Carefully match the final output level of each device.
When I worked at Radio Shack, back in the '80s, a salesperson could steer a customer to a particular set of speakers or headphones simply by making them just slightly louder than another pair. A-B-C speaker switches gave the illusion of a fair comparison but, the slightly louder speakers or headphones were more often described as "fuller", "more dynamic", "clearer", etc.

4) Your turn - What other methods would make comparison videos better?

[mmarsh100]

Language - Don't use phrases like 'iconic' or 'the one that started it all' to describe one of the synths. It biases people up front.

[_DemonDan_]

6) Don't allow your recording to clip (distort).
There's a behavior that came from using the old cassette and reel-to-reel recording devices that encouraged everyone to record as close to the red (above +0dB) as possible to reduce system noise.

And, even if you exceeded +0dB, it might not ruin the recording, and might even enhance it, depending on the source.

But, clipping on a digital recording, especially if it's getting data compressed into mp3, has no redeeming value. It's just bad. And it typically happens at exactly the moment you really want to hear.

So, before making the actual recording, try playing the most intense things you're going to do during the recording. If the device has polyphony, make sure to try the worst case. Try all the octaves, try all the presets or settings you'd be using. And then... after making sure nothing clipped, bring it down just a tiny bit more.

Also, if you're using mixers, effects, etc., make sure that each of them are gain staged to sound the best they can, and then give each of them a little headroom too.

[ChiLam]

No other instruments/drums played with the examples - I've seen comparisons where a lot of other instrumentation is taking place at the same time. Maybe an in-context comparison can be worthwhile but some use totally different backing tracks too! All in all I think comparisons should only include the naked sound of the instruments to be compared.

[_DemonDan_]

Whenever possible, go line level direct from source to recording.
It does us no good to hear your heater, refrigerator, room reverb, or nearby traffic when listening for subtle differences. If a mixer to combine a mic and the synth is unavailable, have a separate section for talking and one for playing. Use onscreen text to describe important points instead of adding the mic's background noise.

[_DemonDan_]

9) Move parameters slowly across their entire range.
I’ll work on a single patch for weeks so that Mod Wheel, Slider, Foot Controller, and Aftertouch each do incredible things over their entire range, only to watch some demonstrator treat each of them like a switch to be rapidly pushed from one extreme to the other.

If you’re sweeping a filter, or LFO speed, or LFO depth, etc., take the time to smoothly go from one end to the other. The whole point of analog is that there’s always something in between two points, and then something in between that, ad infinitum.

[MacAquinas]

Dan you should do a Youtube channel like Marc Doty or Nick Batt. You understand synthesizers like the back of your hand and you are able to explain it so damn well! You can get sponsors and make some money.

[bichuelo]

Dan you should do a Youtube channel like Marc Doty or Nick Batt. You understand synthesizers like the back of your hand and you are able to explain it so damn well! You can get sponsors and make some money.

He does, for Sweetwater

[MacAquinas]

Dan you should do a Youtube channel like Marc Doty or Nick Batt. You understand synthesizers like the back of your hand and you are able to explain it so damn well! You can get sponsors and make some money.

He does, for Sweetwater

I dont mean product overview and summary, I mean in depth instruction like in his posts, but on video. His posts are like articles in a Encyclopedia of Synthesis. Tremendous resource,I have learned a lot from them.

[MoogProg]

Yeah, there is a whole Knowledge section at their site, both articles and videos and all sorts of products and techniques.

Oh, and I just had to steal this great quote for my signature. Thanks, Dan!

[B3 guy]

I'd vote for a ban on outboard effects altogether. I get wanting to demo a synth with effects on occasion but for a comparison it's just a distraction (for me anyway). I want to hear the raw sound.

[Ledbetter]

I completely agree with this thread. The first thing I listen to is the unadorned oscillator, then add the filter, . . . .

[WilliamShaver]

Can someone can explain why "synth comparison" videos or whatnot are at all interesting or informative? I mean, I just watched a Sonic State (or perhaps G-Force) video comparing the original Odyssey with the Korg re-issue: at the end, I just couldn't understand who would care (or at any rate care that much) if they sounded alike or different for a couple of reasons:

One, I would expect that there is quite a divergence of "sound" between different vintage machines just because of aging in the components used in their construction. To that end, maybe what you're hearing is the difference between the re-issue and that particular vintage machine...compare the re-issue against a different vintage machine and maybe you'll get different results.

Two, don't we judge current synthesizers based on their sound? If the Korg re-issue sounds good then, well, isn't that enough? Would you really not purchase a re-issue solely because, say, the oscillator sync sound isn't quite comparable to the "real deal"? That sounds just weird.

Three, what is the audience for the comparisons? If you've already got the original, well, you've got the original...what do you care about a re-issue? If you don't have the original, then what are your choices: plopping down 4-5 plus grand for an original (and with all the headaches associated with 40 year old technology) or plopping down one grand for a modern machine. I mean I can see comparing, say, a soft synth (the G-Force Oddity for instance) against a re-issue, but I can't see a lot of people faced with the "original or re-issue" choice...is that plausible?

I just "don't get it"..can anyone fill me in?

[_DemonDan_]

Can someone can explain why "synth comparison" videos or whatnot are at all interesting or informative?...
If the Korg re-issue sounds good then, well, isn't that enough?
I just "don't get it"..can anyone fill me in?

Hi WilliamShaver,

Terrific question! Here's my take on it:

I think a lot people don't trust enough in their own opinion as to what sounds good.
This seems counter-intuitive since it should be obvious to a person what sounds good to them.

So... when there's a product that "everyone agrees" has a legendary sound, it's much easier to objectively judge if a new product sounds similar to an already legendary product than it is to abstractly decide if that new product sounds good on its own, without any comparisons to something else.

Yes, I do have a lot more official schooling in synthesizer programming, audio engineering, music theory, instrument performance, etc., than the average person trying to decide which synth to buy. But I took those specific classes and majors because all that stuff was already easy for me. Majoring in synths was more an act of laziness and following the path of least resistance than it was about learning more about something I didn't understand.

I was modifying and tweaking instruments long before I officially knew what I was doing. All I was doing was trying to get things to sound and feel the way I wanted.

And I believe it's not just the complexity of synthesis that makes people doubt themselves. Example: Guitar effects pedal comparisons are also like this, even when the pedals being compared only have two knobs on them. Clearly the potential buyers aren't flummoxed by the infinite possibilities offered by two analog parameters. And yet, there are probably far more of these pedal comparisons than synth comparisons.

It takes a certain kind of guts to admit that you really like the sound or behavior of an inexpensive, and critically ignored pedal, over a pedal that collectors are paying $1000 for on eBay. It's a lot easier to feel good about liking a cheaper pedal if you see a video showing that it does certain things just like the pedal that the effect community officially loves.

The same thing goes for synth programming. Too many synthesizer (and sampler, and ROMpler) owners treat other people's presets like they're magical gems that could never be created by mere mortals.

Sure, a completely blank synthesizer can be a scary thing. But I challenge everyone with a synth that has presets:
Make every preset an INIT PRESET and start filling it with experiments that you create every day. You WILL develop your own programming strategies, and will very likely come up with something that's at least a little bit different than anyone else's programming.

Trust your own instincts as to what sounds good and what makes you want to noodle for endless hours.

You simply can't be wrong. If something sounds good to you, then... it sounds good to you.

I would love to see/hear a lot more videos like these Blindfolded Comparisons. Even these are somewhat biased, because the judges can hear certain telltale quirks that are dead giveaways (as opposed to solely comparing levels of quality). But, every now and then, you'll see the experts struggle when comparing the universally-approved product against a lesser product. That's when these are interesting to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnUuUjqHEMU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l605_1pC9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfGEA3GCBHY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KtMaMq27J8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVligAj-hIQ

I'd love to see these kind of videos go a step farther and only focus on which sound/feel better (to that person), instead of trying to identify them.