Sub 37: how to re-create the sound from Any Colour You Like

[radamant]

I am interested in how to re-create the synth lead sound* from Pink Floyd's classic Any Colour You Like.

I know there is some sort of delay, maybe a tape delay. Other than that, the closest I have found in forums etc. to getting the sound is to have two square-wave oscillators, one an octave up from the other. I have done this on my sub 37 and I still feel like something is missing.

Has anyone attempted to create this sound? Any idea how to do it on the sub 37? Bonus beat: how do people go about reverse-engineering sounds by ear?


* apparently it was originally created on the EMS Synthi-A or AKS, which is a debate somewhere on the internet

[jido-genshi]

I am interested in how to re-create the synth lead sound* from Pink Floyd's classic Any Colour You Like.

I know there is some sort of delay, maybe a tape delay. Other than that, the closest I have found in forums etc. to getting the sound is to have two square-wave oscillators, one an octave up from the other. I have done this on my sub 37 and I still feel like something is missing.

Has anyone attempted to create this sound? Any idea how to do it on the sub 37? Bonus beat: how do people go about reverse-engineering sounds by ear?


* apparently it was originally created on the EMS Synthi-A or AKS, which is a debate somewhere on the internet

With all due respect, any time I see posts like this on forums, it amazes me that people don't realize why they can't get that exact sound they are looking for. Why? Because the ingredient you are missing, in your particular case, to get that exact synth lead sound (besides the actual synth) is Pink Floyd's Studio Engineer. And Pink Floyd's Producer(s). And the mixing desk and tape recorder at Abbey Road Studios that they tracked the album at. And Pink Floyd themselves for that matter.

In other words, even if you had the exact same synth with the exact same effect processor, you don't have the EQ, Mix or Compressor settings on the hundred's of thousands of dollars Neve mixing console that they used, recorded to the exact type of tape (type 888? type 811? type815?) on the type of tape machine (Studer J37?) that they used. And ALL of those things do make a difference to the sound that you hear... much more than people realize.

You are probably as close as you are going to get for that sound you are trying to achieve. But be your own self and create new sounds! Too many people are trying to chase somebody else's past...

[radamant]

I'm not interested in the exact sound. I'm just curious if someone knows how to re-create an approximation of this sound on the Sub37 partially as a conversation piece, but also to learn a little more about how to intentionally go about understanding how to re-create sounds.

Daniel Fisher does an amazing job of this in this video http://youtu.be/aDXESToG4p8?t=17m5s where he is re-creating a different pink floyd sound (among other amazing experiments.

Regarding:

But be your own self and create new sounds! Too many people are trying to chase somebody else's past...

I think it's extremely important to understand how other sounds from the past were made in order to better learn how to use synthesizers like the sub 37. Similarly, we learn to play other composers' songs when we learn to play a new instrument. I think it will only make our own synthesis experiments more interesting and better informed.

[tpmears]

Oh stop being a know-it-all, it can still be fun to recreate sounds to the best of your ability and see how close you can get without Pick Floyds same equipment, YEESH.

[namnibor]

Oh stop being a know-it-all, it can still be fun to recreate sounds to the best of your ability and see how close you can get without Pick Floyds same equipment, YEESH.

That's all well and good but it's paramount to learn at least the basics of subtractive synthesis like the back of your hand so when you hear a sound you can, without much effort, recreate such sound(s) and more importantly, your own unique sound design programs. Sound On Sound has a *wealth* of synthesis workshops archived that are entirely free and done by a master synthesis and Moog enthusiast, Gordon Reid.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

^THAT is like 4 college semesters of information (at least) and recommend starting from very beginning and go through them all, with many having exercises that apply to any subtractive synth, analog or otherwise. Hope this helps. Also it goes without saying, spend TONS of TIME getting to know the Sub 37 through *trial and error*...practice indeed leads to quasi-perfection.

Hope that link helps OP.

[MoogProg]

...the closest I have found in forums etc. to getting the sound is to have two square-wave oscillators, one an octave up from the other. I have done this on my sub 37 and I still feel like something is missing.

OK. Good start, so we can use OSC1 and the SUB for the two Square-waves. That leaves OSC2 to free to go up/down into higher/lower octaves still, or double one of the other OSCs to thicken things up. Season to taste with detuning, or possibly add a subtle 5th to the overall sound.

Next, start looking at the filter and amp envelopes. Sounds to me like things are fairly gated, fast attack with quick release. Very ON/OFF. But, small amounts of motion can add a lot of character to a patch, so again season to taste.

To my ear, one of the key elements to that solo sound is the long delay. What are you using? Might be a critical point towards nailing the sound you 're after.

Good luck!

[jido-genshi]

I'm not interested in the exact sound. I'm just curious if someone knows how to re-create an approximation of this sound on the Sub37 partially as a conversation piece, but also to learn a little more about how to intentionally go about understanding how to re-create sounds.

Daniel Fisher does an amazing job of this in this video http://youtu.be/aDXESToG4p8?t=17m5s where he is re-creating a different pink floyd sound (among other amazing experiments.

Regarding:

But be your own self and create new sounds! Too many people are trying to chase somebody else's past...

I think it's extremely important to understand how other sounds from the past were made in order to better learn how to use synthesizers like the sub 37. Similarly, we learn to play other composers' songs when we learn to play a new instrument. I think it will only make our own synthesis experiments more interesting and better informed.

Oh stop being a know-it-all, it can still be fun to recreate sounds to the best of your ability and see how close you can get without Pick Floyds same equipment, YEESH.

Yeah, I think some of you misunderstood me...

It's all well and good to try and create sounds from the past in order to learn synthesis... but radamant initially made it sound like he wanted that exact sound that he heard on that particular song and he got close, but wasn't sure what was missing other than effects and the actual synth, and I only was trying to say that you'll never get that exact sound because it was particular to all the other elements (studio board, tape type, engineer, etc.) involved in that particular session.

But creating sounds to learn is perfectly fine and recommended, but if you're trying to get the exact sound (quality, timbre, etc.) from a song in the past and then wind up getting frustrated at the new instrument you have, I think you're chasing something you'll never be able to catch... and I see this on other forums all the time; people blaming the Sub 37 for not being able to exactly recreate what "Stevie Wonder did on a Minimoog Model D back in the 1970s" or something else like that. THAT's what I was addressing.

Sorry if I misunderstood... wasn't trying to be a "know-it-all" was just trying to help and encourage to explore your own thing, rather than get frustrated at not being able to nail an over 40 year old, professionally studio produced sound.

[radamant]

Sound On Sound has a *wealth* of synthesis workshops archived that are entirely free and done by a master synthesis and Moog enthusiast, Gordon Reid.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

^THAT is like 4 college semesters of information (at least) and recommend starting from very beginning and go through them all, with many having exercises that apply to any subtractive synth, analog or otherwise. Hope this helps. Also it goes without saying, spend TONS of TIME getting to know the Sub 37 through *trial and error*...practice indeed leads to quasi-perfection.

Hope that link helps OP.

Wow, this is amazing and very much along the lines of where my interest lies! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[radamant]

radamant initially made it sound like he wanted that exact sound that he heard on that particular song and he got close, but wasn't sure what was missing other than effects and the actual synth, and I only was trying to say that you'll never get that exact sound because it was particular to all the other elements (studio board, tape type, engineer, etc.) involved in that particular session.

Sorry about that! I didn't intend to give that impression. I think perhaps it was my mention of tape dela. I only brought up the delay to avoid that topic, because I wasn't that interested in the fact that the delay makes the sound, but more interested in how to create an approximation of the original(dry) signal into the tape delay.

I, too, think it is foolish to attempt to create an exact sound. I pretty much avoid it at all costs. However, I was listening to this track recently and inspired by how great it sounds. I think even a poor imitation would still sound great!

[aisling]

I am all about finding one's own voice and not following other people's sounds, I have always held out and not played covers in bands, etc...
But there are so many classic sounds that I actually wish I could have access to, if only for the inspiratory mood that they bring out, when I hear those songs. Sometimes you just want that sound you know from another song, and then you set off into the current of creativity, and morph it into your own.

[tpmears]

To add to the previous suggestions...

I think you're going to the right direction with 2 square waves. When I listen to the track, the delays are very prominent in the sound. I think you could get closer to that sound by placing a compressor after the delay. It also sounds fairly saturated so perhaps experiment with raising the levels of the oscillators in the mixer, or adding Multidrive.

On a side note: I love that song! Listening to it is one of my first synthesizer-related memories

I hope that helps, I love programming synths and understanding sound.

[lushr]

For me, the best way to learn is to be given a task, eg, "set all the knobs to match this chart and see what found you get, try tweaking the mod wheel for full effect"

RTFM does not encapsulate a kinetic, aural or visual learners needs. I wish there were a safe place for people to ask a question like this and get the benefit of experience from others. This is, in fact, the oldest method of learning and teaching.

It is also difficult to ascertain what is and is not possible to create using analogue subtractive synthesis. Twiddling knobs without a goal is not as effective as being given a guided tour of examples X Y and Z.

Experience takes time and nurturing, if you're not interested in that aspect of the community you don't need to read this thread, you don't need to make haughty comments about how you're better than the OP.

Thank you to the interesting and constructive comments here, I'm sorry I don't have the technical knowledge to be one of them.