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Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

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Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby amos922 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:00 pm

I was in guitar center playing with a little phatty today. Being that I am a first time moog owner with the subphatty, I noticed a substantial difference in the sound between the two. I am a fairly descent sound programmer but have not been able to come close to the sound of the little phatty. Is this because of the difference in the two different oscillators used between the two? THe little phatty seems to have more of a "true analog" sound to it, im wondering was that intentional on behalf of moog? Looking at the two, although I didnt dive deeply into the specs of the little phatty, I should be able to create those sounds or come pretty close. Can someone explain why these two instruments sound completely different?
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby IgorCristo » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:13 pm

I don't think they can sound exactly the same… the oscillators aren't the same, neither is the filter. They can achieve very similar sounds, but one can't sound like the other. That's why I'm waiting for my Sub Phatty!
Last edited by IgorCristo on Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby amos922 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:26 pm

Yea I don't think they sound too similar. I think they may be good compliment pieces. The subphatty is a nice piece extremely loud, it doesn't sound very analogue too me. The filters of course and certain elements. I would be interested to see how they both sound side by side. Found a little phatty for 700, I may be finding out pretty soon
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby George Nada » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:28 pm

What do you mean by more of a "true analog" sound exactly? I'm interested in the Sub Phatty as my first Moog synth as well so I'm interested to know what you mean by that since it seems like a red flag to me!
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby Voltor07 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:55 pm

The filter is much beefier in the Sub than the Little. The overdrive section was redesigned for the Sub Phatty, and the oscillators were modeled after the Minitaur's osc's. The LP has oscillators that aren't as stable as the Sub's, and a slightly weaker filter. Also, the LP does not have a sub oscillator. As the happy owner of an LP, I am drawn to the Sub Phatty, because it does have a different sound as well as knob per function. I do not like the 25 key keyboard, but if they ever build a rack module out of it, I would get one. :)
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby amos922 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:42 am

I believe that the stable oscillator is mainly what I'm referring to when I say it doesnt sound as warm Nd analog as the LP. The SP is loud and has a very pointed sound as with the LP it is much Warmer IMO. I don't think there are any synths comparable to the sound of the SP and it is a great piece but I prefer the sound of the LP.
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby mico » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:42 am

As a former LP owner, and foolishly selling before finishing two songs, I am in a similar predicament when it comes to recreating LP sounds. More specifically though, my problem lies with presets. I do not so much miss the filter or the sound of the oscillators at all; I just don't have the faintest where to start with recreating these presets. Crafting them by ear isn't an option because of one run-through workflow. Basically, I record each arrangement in one take, effects and all - minimizing the in-the-box experience as much as possible.

The presets being Pulsar Bass and Bitcrusher. A real shame, really as this is stifling two rather significant tracks. I'm able to get fairly close to the Taurus sound, but there is something missing there as well.
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby IgorCristo » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:02 am

@mico
If you want to, I can record sounds of these two presets for sharing with you. :)
I don't think they'll sound exactly like them, but you can get it to sound very close to the original… after all, the Sub Phatty is a Moog!
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby George Nada » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:28 pm

I don't mind the stable oscillator, but it looks like the SP's architecture is geared towards an aggressive sound. Which is useful, but I would like plenty of soft sounds as well. Probably more so than the aggressive. I think I'd be happier with the LP but I never did gel with the interface at all when I played it. I need those knobs! :-)
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby amos922 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:25 pm

George Nada wrote:What do you mean by more of a "true analog" sound exactly? I'm interested in the Sub Phatty as my first Moog synth as well so I'm interested to know what you mean by that since it seems like a red flag to me!

The subphatty has very stable oscillators which give it almost a perfect/ digital sound..I spent 3 hours in guitar center playing with a LP they had trying to makie similar sounds I made on the SP. The LP sounds a lot warmer as the SP sounds warm in some instances but sounds more aggressive. If you want aggressive Dubbstep type bass then the SP Is for you. When its processed it really sounds big, but I prefer the warmer lead sounds I can make with the LP. It sounds like how you would want your analog synth to sound. Ideally you would probably want both having the SP for the bass and the LP for leads. It comes down to preference and workflow.
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby mico » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:01 am

amos922 wrote:
George Nada wrote:What do you mean by more of a "true analog" sound exactly? I'm interested in the Sub Phatty as my first Moog synth as well so I'm interested to know what you mean by that since it seems like a red flag to me!

The subphatty has very stable oscillators which give it almost a perfect/ digital sound..I spent 3 hours in guitar center playing with a LP they had trying to makie similar sounds I made on the SP. The LP sounds a lot warmer as the SP sounds warm in some instances but sounds more aggressive. If you want aggressive Dubbstep type bass then the SP Is for you. When its processed it really sounds big, but I prefer the warmer lead sounds I can make with the LP. It sounds like how you would want your analog synth to sound. Ideally you would probably want both having the SP for the bass and the LP for leads. It comes down to preference and workflow.

If you want some drift in your Sub Phatty sounds, tinker with the Beat Frequency of Osc. 2 in Shift mode. This hidden parameter allows you to dial in the amount of drift you want. Another precaution you can take as to avoid the "digital" sound is minimize your utilization of other hidden parameters of the 'reset' sort, especially Oscillator Gate Reset and LFO Gate Reset.

If you want more "warmth", make sure are crafting sounds with the filter set to 4-pole/24dB per octave.

I've owned the LP SE II and the only thing I truly miss is the arpeggiator. Which I do miss dearly.
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby amos922 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:55 am

Those are great tips! I tried it today and it made a big difference in the way my sound was coming out. Definitely not a voyager or voyager-esque but it has its own sound which I'm starting to come to terms with. I believe this piece was designed for Dubbstep in mind. It seems to be its strongest fit. I created some really nice gritty dubb basses today with some interesting tones that would definitely be perfect for Dubbstep. No one should expect this piece to be a little phatty or a voyager but explore the capabilities of this synth for its own unique attributes.
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby Kenneth » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:46 am

Calling the new synthesizer "sub phatty" was a mistake in my opinion. It gives the illusion that it is more similar to the other phatties than it actually is. They should have come up with an original name and look.
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby mico » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:29 am

amos922 wrote:Those are great tips! I tried it today and it made a big difference in the way my sound was coming out. Definitely not a voyager or voyager-esque but it has its own sound which I'm starting to come to terms with. I believe this piece was designed for Dubbstep in mind. It seems to be its strongest fit. I created some really nice gritty dubb basses today with some interesting tones that would definitely be perfect for Dubbstep. No one should expect this piece to be a little phatty or a voyager but explore the capabilities of this synth for its own unique attributes.

I'm glad to be of service, mate. I've spent a fair bit of time in Shift mode and toying with each hidden parameter. I look forward to post-release firmware update that fixes the Delay and Hold parameters scale properly and addresses a startup bug.

I'm will have to beg to differ in regards to your conclusion about the Sub Phatty's application. I spend most of my time synthesizing rather vicious sounds, sure, but the Sub Phatty is not so limited as being not only a specialty instrument, but a specialty instrument fitted for only to one genre niche.

Sure, it can serve that genre well, but I would not say that is its strong suit. The unit is more than capable in the higher registry of the sonic palette. Yet again, another reason why I think its name is a detriment to its rather unique voice.

Kenneth wrote:Calling the new synthesizer "sub phatty" was a mistake in my opinion. It gives the illusion that it is more similar to the other phatties than it actually is. They should have come up with an original name and look.

I agree. While I have no qualms with its UI, form factor, and aesthetic, I feel the synthesizer is worthy of its own legacy.
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Re: Is my Subphatty able to recreate Little Phatty sounds?

Postby amos922 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:40 pm

mico wrote:
amos922 wrote:Those are great tips! I tried it today and it made a big difference in the way my sound was coming out. Definitely not a voyager or voyager-esque but it has its own sound which I'm starting to come to terms with. I believe this piece was designed for Dubbstep in mind. It seems to be its strongest fit. I created some really nice gritty dubb basses today with some interesting tones that would definitely be perfect for Dubbstep. No one should expect this piece to be a little phatty or a voyager but explore the capabilities of this synth for its own unique attributes.

I'm glad to be of service, mate. I've spent a fair bit of time in Shift mode and toying with each hidden parameter. I look forward to post-release firmware update that fixes the Delay and Hold parameters scale properly and addresses a startup bug.

I'm will have to beg to differ in regards to your conclusion about the Sub Phatty's application. I spend most of my time synthesizing rather vicious sounds, sure, but the Sub Phatty is not so limited as being not only a specialty instrument, but a specialty instrument fitted for only to one genre niche.

Sure, it can serve that genre well, but I would not say that is its strong suit. The unit is more than capable in the higher registry of the sonic palette. Yet again, another reason why I think its name is a detriment to its rather unique voice.

Kenneth wrote:Calling the new synthesizer "sub phatty" was a mistake in my opinion. It gives the illusion that it is more similar to the other phatties than it actually is. They should have come up with an original name and look.

I agree. While I have no qualms with its UI, form factor, and aesthetic, I feel the synthesizer is worthy of its own legacy.

I would love to hear some of the sounds created by users in the higher registry, I have created some descent sounds but nothing I would consider usable to my standard of liking. If anyone was willing to share their creations or how they created it, it may help sell to potential consumers and help others such as myself.
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