theremini driving a dx7

[tcheuk]

bonjour !
Has anyone tried to drive a midi synthesizer (like a dx7) through the theremini, using the usb plug? I bought a cable that has classic midi plugs at one end and an USB at the other, then a cable USB --> mini USB... but i cannot play my dx7 through the antennas...

thanx in advance for your advices!

[synthguy]

The Theremini USB cannot connect directly to the DX7. It has to be connected through a host computer of some kind.
I use an IPad to act as the host for the Theremini and my USB Midi interface that connects to other Midi synths. I plug the Theremini and Midi interface into a USB hub, and connect the hub to the IPad via a lightning to USB adapter.
On the IPad, I use an app called MidiBridge that allows me to make and manage Midi connections between the Theremini and various synth apps on the IPad, as well as external synths connected to the USB Midi interface. This app even lets me route the Theremini Midi back into itself, letting me use the antennas to control interesting stuff like the internal digital delay. Weirdness abounds!
Keep in mind that the Theremini currently only transmits and receives data on Midi channel 1, although this is likely to change at some point in the future with a firmware update (I hope).

[Gordon Charlton]

use the antennas to control interesting stuff like the internal digital delay. Weirdness abounds!

That I would love to hear. Have you posted any samples anywhere?

[synthguy]

Hi Gordon!
I haven't had a chance to record anything, but really hope to soon. We've just moved our household recently, and everything is in total chaos. It's definitely on my list, once I dig my way to the bottom of the pile
I do have the Theremini out, and have also been checking out the new editor on the IPad. Awesome.
Are you using your Theremini with the IPad? There's some very cool interfacing possibilities available there.
Another cool destination for the antenna CCs is the wavetable start point, which is not currently controllable via the firmware, but accessible through the external CC slot. I hope this is addressed in a future firmware upgrade, as it's a very expressive feature.
One disadvantage of the built in delay is that the time can't be smoothly adjusted, but the resultant glitching as it's adjusted is sort of cool, especially at shorter delay times.Very interesting for more aggressive solo sounds.

[Gordon Charlton]

Thank you - I suspected that might be the case - a non-glitching variable duration digital delay means doing it the hard way and is more demanding on the processor. Glitches can be good though.

I don't have a theremini but it is on my radar as an item of interest. I have an EP of pitch quantised theremin due for release in about a month.

Sample -https://soundcloud.com/beat-frequency/dionysus-weeping

Very short delays are cool too. This is theremin through a digital delay of 5ms with damn near 100% feedback. http://youtu.be/-B68bRDzQi8

[synthguy]

WOW.

Great stuff, Gordon. I see why the Theremini is on your radar...I think that you would find it very useful for the excellent, interesting music that you're making.
The scale quantization is extremely interesting, and the built in delay can produce an interval as short as 2ms. There are even some ways to get it to distort a bit internally, making for some interesting evolving textures.
Do you have an IPad, and do you have some way to generate and control Midi data? There are a number of great IPad apps available that work very well with the Theremini, and Midi control of it greatly expands it's possibilities. There are many facets that are available through Midi CCs.

What sound processes are at work in The Bolgia of Barrators? Very interesting.

[Gordon Charlton]

I have an iPad mini. I also have one of these, which looks like a useful addition to a theremini: http://www.eowave.com/instruments.php?prod=52. I don't have any significant expertise in MIDI

Boglia - I didn't document the process when I recorded it, but the effects chain was something like etherwave standard with Modtone Buzzboy Power Fuzz in the send/return loop (*), and in the regular effects chain Electro-Harmonix Talking Machine (with expression pedal), then GigFX Chopper, Marshall Echohead EH-1 delay pedal and finally a DigiTech JamMan Solo XT for multitracking and recording. In postproduction I will have added faux stereo and matrix reverb.


(*) Send/return loop - this was a mod by Thierry Frenkel http://theremin.tfrenkel.com - I can insert an effects pedal between the pitch oscillator and the volume circuit of my etherwave so that it always receives full volume. This overcomes hiss problems with noisy pedals like fuzz boxes, and defeats noise-gates, which are a pain for thereminists as they prevent pianissimo playing. Thierry also added his excellent ESPE01 bass extension which means I can play down to 5Hz (not a typo) and he retuned my etherwave to extend the upper range - not quite to dog-whistle range, but above the top of a piano keyboard.

[synthguy]

Haven't seen the Eowave before. That would be very handy indeed for Theremini control.

My favorite Midi controller for the last 20 years or so has been the Digitech PMC10. It produces just about any sort of Midi data you could want, even allowing you to record unknown data from a device and transmit it on demand. It supports two external volume-type pedals, and each pedal can send three different Midi CCs at once, all independently scalable, invertible, and any choice of values and channels. Everything is programmable as part of a preset, so each new preset called up (500 of them) can completely reconfigure the whole pedal. Sort of a steep learning curve, but if you've got something to do Midi-wise, it can probably be accomplished with this device. They were too complicated to really catch on, and never sold in great numbers, but are the best of this type of controller I've seen. I've got two. You can daisy chain them together to produce a 20 footswitch, 4 pedal monster controller if needed. Mine have done everything from running my keyboard and guitar rig to controlling lights and sound effects for a Halloween Haunted House.

I can certainly see the value in the pre-volume loop, the perfect place for distortion and the like. Your setup is very sophisticated, and produces some great, otherworldly ambient (and other) sounds...I'm guessing you would feel very at home with the Theremini.
A nice touch with it that no one seems to mention is that the digital delay is post volume antenna, so you can create swells using higher feedback and delay settings that don't get cut off when the volume antenna is brought back down. Master volume is addressable via the typical CC #7, and that fades the delay as well.

[Gordon Charlton]

Gosh, that PMC 10 looks interesting, but I was thinking of a different approach using my iPad mini.

The Audulus modular synth app looks pretty nifty for manipulating MIDI streams - taking the MIDI outputs from the theremini, doing maths on them and feeding them back in to modulate filters and the like, and for using LFOs and step sequencers to generate MIDI streams too. Fixed settings like those offered by the Moog theremini app are good, but I really like stuff that changes over time, morphing from one waveform into another and suchlike. I had an idea, glancing through the theremini manual, to step sequence the Transpose function to make a sort of whacky arpeggiator, for instance.

And on top of Audulus, simple piece-specific user interfaces built with TouchOSC (it does MIDI as well as OSC) to give me just the controls I want during a performance - I need simple when I'm performing - my mind isn't on understanding complicated user interfaces, it's on playing.)

(Not knocking the Moog app - it looks like a lot of fun and a vast improvement on the drill-down text menu interface, but eventually I'd want more.)

Uh, yeah, delays need to be post-volume loop, the theremin oscillator is always on - you don't want to hear echoes of what it was doing while you had the volume loop muted, really.

Anyway - it's going to be a while before I make my mind up about getting a theremini - there is a significant overlap with what I can achieve without it, there are some cash-flow issues in my finances that need resolving and several other items on my wish-list, and - I really need to try before I buy as I have a few qualms regarding latency - I've been playing theremin long enough to have really tight hand-ear coordination and I'm not sure how well I would adapt to a system which is not 100% immediate, audio-feedback-wise. (Your mileage may vary - from what I have been hearing, some long term thereminists are painfully aware of the lag, others don't really notice it.) So I hope you guys don't mind me hanging around until then.

[synthguy]

Hey, I had no idea that Audulus could be such a multi-Midi controller. I was just thinking of it as a build your own modular synth kind of thing. That looks really cool!
Touch OSC as well.

Funny you mentioning the transpose function....I started messing around with that last week using the Midisequencer app. It allows you to send multiple, adjustable CCs for each step as well as the more traditional note number stuff. The result? instant sequencing of the Theremini that can be transposed via the pitch antenna, and stepped chromatically, or through the various scales available. Add the appropriate digital delay, and it sounds very good.
You can also sequence other neat things like the wavetable start, wave selection, filter, etc. The app can clock from very slow to very fast, and the developer has been adding to it on a regular basis.
http://appshopper.com/music/midisequencer

This free app from Yamaha may also be of interest.
http://appshopper.com/music/faders-xy-pad-us
Eight CC assignable faders per preset, that can also be linked in any order to an XY pad. Each fader can send three CCs, which can be assigned to any controller# and channel, scaled and even inverted if desired. There's a damping control for the XY touchspot that can be turned all the way up so the spot stays in continuous motion, fast or slow as it bounces around automating the faders.
Hard to describe, but check it out. Very useful, and free.

Please hang around, by all means!
Enjoying our talks, and learning quite a bit as well.

[Gordon Charlton]

Oops! I just realised Audulus doesn't have a MIDI out node.

But it is winning the vote for new feature. So looks likely soon, whatever soon is. I helped it along with a vote.

http://forum.audulus.com/discussion/374 ... udulus-/p1