I have been using my MF-105 (mix 100% with pattern) in the feedback loop on my MF-108, while the 108 is self-oscillating, creating quirky rhythmic movement pitched by the time setting on the 108. Suddenly today I get no sound when I do this. The 105 seems to be functioning fine with other gear. I tried two different insert cables. The sliders were up and working. Putting the ring mod in the loop seemed to work ok, but the phaser seems to give strange results too.
Is this a known problem, and what could have happened?
Problem with FB insert on cluster flux
-
deadhedgehog
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:33 am
- Location: Norway
- Contact:
Re: Problem with FB insert on cluster flux
I haven't heard of this before, though if anybody has, they're sure to be working at the Moog factory.
Have you tried giving them a buzz?
Stephen
.
Have you tried giving them a buzz?
Stephen
.
-
deadhedgehog
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:33 am
- Location: Norway
- Contact:
Re: Problem with FB insert on cluster flux
Further to my comments above, after further testing I think it is most likely that I have misunderstood something, but thought I'd share in the hope of being enlightened. 
It seems that my 108 doesn't always self-oscillate when feedback is max. But flipping the chorus/flange switch back and forth seems to make it start up again. I am not sure what the cause of the feedback stopping is. Also, if the drive of the pedal in the FB loop is set lower than the drive of the 108, no signal gets through. When this is then turned up, you get a sudden fortissimo rather than a gradual increase.
Is this normal behaviour, and what is the rationale behind the gain thing?
It seems that my 108 doesn't always self-oscillate when feedback is max. But flipping the chorus/flange switch back and forth seems to make it start up again. I am not sure what the cause of the feedback stopping is. Also, if the drive of the pedal in the FB loop is set lower than the drive of the 108, no signal gets through. When this is then turned up, you get a sudden fortissimo rather than a gradual increase.
Is this normal behaviour, and what is the rationale behind the gain thing?
Re: Problem with FB insert on cluster flux
These really can be confusing pedals at times. Many times I thought "uh-oh" only to change it to "a-ha"!
The self oscillation really needs a sound to get it going, I've noticed that too. Sometimes it has enough of a left over, but flipping the switch works. Also when you change the polarity of the feedback the oscillation dies. I love the character in the oscillation, it's hard to keep "tame" but worth the effort. When the feedback goes into overload it sounds great too...
The feedback insert is a fun tool, but it is a bit sensitive. Balancing the feedback, drive and levels in the FB insert is certainly required. If you have a hot effect, it's like turning the feedback up higher. You can really change the character of the oscillation in the loop.
The self oscillation really needs a sound to get it going, I've noticed that too. Sometimes it has enough of a left over, but flipping the switch works. Also when you change the polarity of the feedback the oscillation dies. I love the character in the oscillation, it's hard to keep "tame" but worth the effort. When the feedback goes into overload it sounds great too...
The feedback insert is a fun tool, but it is a bit sensitive. Balancing the feedback, drive and levels in the FB insert is certainly required. If you have a hot effect, it's like turning the feedback up higher. You can really change the character of the oscillation in the loop.
Vibration emanates from all things, even nothing. Using awareness to translate vibration into "music" is something that I am whole heartedly grateful for.
Re: Problem with FB insert on cluster flux
You've discovered one of the coolest things about analog gear. It's alive, it can't be ultimately tamed, and sometimes it has a mind of its own. Or rather, you have to meld your mind to it so that you both are on the same trip together.
It really is all about gain staging. BBD chips are a special breed in and of themselves. They are sensitive to so many things in their electronic environment that repeatability becomes a challenge. If your gain staging is slightly different than the day before, the result might turn out very different. Especially when finding that sweet spot where something goes into self oscillation. Sometimes it's as simple as a timbral modification of the sound source going in that will change everything. Sometimes it's the attack/decay characteristics. Though most often gain staging is the first place to look. What else is in the chain? What comes after it? These are all sources of potential confusion/joy.
Stephen
.
It really is all about gain staging. BBD chips are a special breed in and of themselves. They are sensitive to so many things in their electronic environment that repeatability becomes a challenge. If your gain staging is slightly different than the day before, the result might turn out very different. Especially when finding that sweet spot where something goes into self oscillation. Sometimes it's as simple as a timbral modification of the sound source going in that will change everything. Sometimes it's the attack/decay characteristics. Though most often gain staging is the first place to look. What else is in the chain? What comes after it? These are all sources of potential confusion/joy.
Stephen
.