Voyager Motu 828mkII Sysex Update Quest

optimusrob · Post by **optimusrob** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:08 am

Hi, I've been reading through some threads and haven't found one addressing harware issues between the Voyager and Motu 828mkII.

I'm running OS 2.0 on my Voyager and have downloaded the Mac Editor demo (running on an old G4 Powerbook with 10.3.5), as well as Sysex and Midi Monitor utilities. I work as Apple tech support -- so you might imagine my reluctance to post a cry for help, but I am truly stumped.

I've been using Sysex to transmit bank B of the 2.5 sysex update and the voyager receives the updates, as shown by it's progress bar, but then I get the dramatic "...Failed!!!" message. The MIDI Out indicator on the 828 confirms the message it transmitting, but the MIDI led on the Voyager never indicates its received anything -- this was the only thing that seemed odd to me.

As for the Voyager settings, I have both MIDI In/Out set to 1, with In/Out functions switched on, the MIDI Merge function off, Sysex ID set to 1, and have updated the driver for the mkII. I also tried running disk utility and restarting a few times. I'm confused because the MIDI functionality has worked great so far, been able to control Reason via the Voyager and sequence the Voyager from the Handsonic.

I've even been able to back-up my edited Presets and system info via Sysex -- seems to receive fine. When using the Midi Monitor app as a troubleshooter, it confirms that Sysex is working correctly. My guess is that it's something buggy with the 828 driver, but I just installed an update yesterday,

If anyone knows of any compatibility successes or failures between the Voyager and 828mkII, I'd love to hear about it. If you can discern a user error from what I've written, please point it out. I should mention that I'm trying to upgrade to 2.5 in order to take advantage of the Mac Editor, but haven't had different results using its update function either. Again, this makes me think the 828 is the culprit.

I'd be grateful for any advice -- hope everyone's week's going well,
Optimus

Qwave · Post by **Qwave** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:48 am

Try to sent the update data by the Mac OS X freeware http://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/ SysEx Librarian to test it with a different software.

And have you set the Voyager to receive the update in the Master Menu 5.4 ?
This maybe a foolish question to ask, but things happen ...

I am also running a old G4 PowerBook on Mac OS X but version 10.3.6 here.

And just for the books:
The channel setting for the MIDI in and out of the Voyager isn't needed at all for SysEx, because SysEx has no channel flag. SysEx is always transmitted and received in a kind of "omni" mode.

optimusrob · Post by **optimusrob** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:10 pm

We're defiinitely on the same page -- that's the utility I was referring to when I said "Sysex" - I know I should have been clearer on that. Good pick-up on the receive update -- didn't mention that because I referred to the status bar on the Voyager receiving a signal, but that could occur under a different function -- you think like a problem solver!

Thanks for the tip about omni mode, that would explain why Sysex Librarian doesn't require you to specify an outgoing channel.

So, it looks like you fully understand what's going on, what would you do next? Do you think it's a bug in the driver or are there known issues with Sysex updates failing? I was worried the Sysex ID might need to be something other than 1 on the Voyager. Since you're an OSX user, would you have any info on Audio/Midi Utility settings? My impression with the 828 at least, is that there's not much to be done there.

Either way, thanks again for the help -- nice to know the Moog community's so quick to respond!

Qwave · Post by **Qwave** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:44 pm

Updates all went smooth on here using the set up I described and using my Emagic mt4 interface. And I am not only updating Moog synths here from time to time.

If you see the Voyager is receiving the update by the progress bar and/or the MIDI indicator LED, then there is something wrong with the data transmitted or received.

Lets test for a MIDI loop:
unplug the cable that is connected to the Voyager's MIDI out.
And dump the SysEx after getting the Voyager in the right "mood" for system updates again.

Another test:
log your self out off the Mac and lock in again. Only start the SysEx Librarian and nothing else. Maybe you have some other data being sended out during the update. Maybe MIDI Clock or TimeCode. This is known to responseable for not working larger SysEx dumps on other synths.

If this is not working, then you should try a different MIDI interface from a freind to make sure its the interface only. Maybe visit a friend with a Mac OS X MIDI interface with your Voyager and the PowerBook under your arms. And have a great session later.

you think like a problem solver!

Thanks ! I used to be a Waldorf beta tester. And I have to debug my little applications also. See the thread with my Mac OS X renaming tool for the Voyager I released about 48 hours ago.

optimusrob · Post by **optimusrob** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:59 pm

You know, I bet you're right. The 828 installs a graphical Console app that auto-starts and hides upon login (keep forgetting to turn that off) -- I bet it might be responsible for fogging-up the Sysex dump. I'll switch it off and try logging in again.

Regarding the MIDI loop test, am I basically just reattempting the same dump from the cpu to the Voyager using Sysex Librarian, but with only 1 MIDI capable connected to the Voyager's MIDI-IN?

I'll be able to try both of these things this afternoon after work -- been limiting my update efforts to an hour after work to prevent it from eating my entire session.

Thanks once more for the suggestions -- I'll give both a try and send you an update.

Qwave · Post by **Qwave** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:11 pm

Regarding the MIDI loop test, am I basically just reattempting the same dump from the cpu to the Voyager using Sysex Librarian, but with only 1 MIDI capable connected to the Voyager's MIDI-IN?

Yep !

optimusrob · Post by **optimusrob** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:47 pm

Nice! Much appreciated --

Straying off topic, as a Waldorf tester, I'm sure you're familiar with their line. Knowing the Voyager's sound, is there any synth in particular that Waldorf makes/made that you feel compliments the Voyager particularly well?

If you're busy, no worries -- just thought I'd be curious for a min. I'm just still looking for that sidekick synth!

Qwave · Post by **Qwave** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:35 pm

Mmmh,
I would got for the Waldorf WAVE of couse.
See my page: http://unofficial.waldorf-wave.de

optimusrob · Post by **optimusrob** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:14 pm

Wow -- I checked that out, I think I'll take one....any chance I could borrow about $10,000? I know the US Dollar is weak right now, but come on, help a brother out!

Nice sounds -- thanks again for the help today...that was one nice looking synth

mee3d · Post by **mee3d** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:29 pm

Just an observation I have found.

I have had verious problems updating the Voyager and my other analogues with different MIDI interfaces . . Steinberg 2x2, M-Audio 8x8, Delta1010, MicroKontrol etc but the one that has always worked flawlessly from all of my Mac G4's and G5's (laptops and towers) has been the emagic mt4 - don't know why but it works everytime.

Mal

theglyph · Post by **theglyph** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:09 am

Optimusrob

The Waldorf Wave is a bit pricey. Check out the Waldorf Q. I find that it compliments my AE Voyger very nicely and it might not kill your bank account!!

optimusrob · Post by **optimusrob** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:42 am

Thanks Mal and theglyph -- I'll check out the Q and try another interface -- still no luck using the 828 for the OS update, but at least the Voyager is working well!

optimusrob · Post by **optimusrob** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:34 am

So, good news and bad.

The good is that the operating system finally updated and now says 2.5 when the Voyager starts up. The bad is that after uploading the anniversary edition presets, all the letters are displayed as fragments and upon turning the Voyager on, it states "the operating system must be reloaded, reload bank C?"

I try to do this and it says "Sysex Failed!!!" I then tried to make sure the Sysex ID, etc. was all correct and realized half of the menu items are gone and replaced by ***RESERVED*** with some message from Rudi (the programmer, I guess).

So, I tried updating the OS again, and it failed. Now my Voyager will not load any patches or even display the patch text -- just fragments of letters. The only thing I could do is initialize the panel settings and then it displays full text.

I have no idea what to do -- have family coming into town this evening and am supposed to play for them. I now can't even load a patch. Please help.

Just to recap, I confirmed the update contained F0 and F7 messages, tried sending with the pause setting in 6 different positions, usually between 250 and 600. In the AudioMidi Utility, the Motu has not editable presets, but I was able to uncheck midi timestamping from the Voyager icon and assign it a Sysex ID of 1 -- that seemed to get the update working the first time.

MC · Post by MC » Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:57 am

By chance there wouldn't be some parameter turned on that inserts an (x)ms pause between MIDI bytes would there?

Some MIDI modules can't swallow large MIDI chunks all at once, this might be turned on by default.

Not a Mac/motu user, but that is my next hardware upgrade

optimusrob · Post by **optimusrob** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:09 am

Definitely a possibility. Are you familiar with the Sysex Librarian by chance? There are two settings in those preferences and I think one refers to a pause of some sort.

I thought I had read in previous threads that a setting too low would cause the Voyager to not keep up with the transmission. Perhaps it's the other way around? I haven't tried turning that completely down, as the readme it came with suggested a level around 250.

I'm willing to try anything at this point, though I think I've been like that since my first semester as an undergrad!

Thanks for your advice -- much appreciated!

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Voyager Motu 828mkII Sysex Update Quest

Voyager Motu 828mkII Sysex Update Quest

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