Omega 8 vs Voyager

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers

What would you rather buy?

Poll ended at Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:45 pm

Omega 8
4
57%
Voyager Rack
3
43%
 
Total votes: 7

Smokey5100
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Omega 8 vs Voyager

Post by Smokey5100 » Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:45 pm

Being that there were so many responses regarding the andromeda,I wanted to know what everybody thought about Studio Electronics Omega 8 and how it's Moog Filter/Sound compares to the real thing.

little doodler
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Post by little doodler » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:06 am

Hands down the Omega 8. While the voyager is pretty thick and greasy, nothing tops the shear size and beauty of the Omega 8.

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goldphinga
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Post by goldphinga » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:32 am

omega 8 is an overprice unreliable piece of **** .read the soundonsound reviews and try one for yourself.you will be disappointed. i hardly think that this is a valid poll.how can u compare the voyager which is a monosynth and the omega 8 which is a poly? i dont quite understand the point. its more like a studio electronics V moog poll. moog wins everytime imo. the se-1 was again never properly finished with software issues far beyond any problems the voyager has ever had. its also doesn't sound as good, has no audio ins etc and has layers and layers of software to negotiate to do the simplest of functions. the polyevolver is a great board on par with the moogs but then dave smith is another legend a la bob. when moog bring out their polysynth we'll all be wanting one. the omega range is a bit of a non event.

moog wins handsdown. :)
Moog Gear: Voyager AE,LP Stage 2+CV outs (Blue LED's/Wheels, MF104SD, MF101 Filter, MF103 Phaser, Source, Memorymoog+, Minitaur.

Qwave
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Post by Qwave » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:51 am

goldphinga:

+1
keep on turning these Moog knobs

Till "Qwave" Kopper

[url=http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Squarewave/]Squarewave Group[/url] member "waldorfian_qwave"

Array
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Post by Array » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:39 pm

goldphinga wrote:omega 8 is an overprice unreliable piece of **** .read the soundonsound reviews and try one for yourself.you will be disappointed. i hardly think that this is a valid poll.how can u compare the voyager which is a monosynth and the omega 8 which is a poly? i dont quite understand the point. its more like a studio electronics V moog poll. moog wins everytime imo. the se-1 was again never properly finished with software issues far beyond any problems the voyager has ever had. its also doesn't sound as good, has no audio ins etc and has layers and layers of software to negotiate to do the simplest of functions. the polyevolver is a great board on par with the moogs but then dave smith is another legend a la bob. when moog bring out their polysynth we'll all be wanting one. the omega range is a bit of a non event.

moog wins handsdown. :)
I believe that your post borders on libel.

How is a comparison between a Voyager and an Omega not valid? Both synths use discrete circuitry to generate sounds. One just happens to be polyphonic. Do you really think that, realistically, a polyphonic synth built with the same high standards as the voyager could ever be marketed? Have you ever SEEN the insides of a Voyager? A polyphonic version would literally weigh 100kg and cost as much as a house.

If the current incarnation of Moog Music was to ever make a polyphonic synth, it would most definately follow the model that Studio Electronics has set. Discrete VCO's and VCF's, controlled via software. Actually, I wouldnt even be surprised if Moog ended up using IC's for either the VCO's, VCF's, or both.

If you want a polyphonic Voyager, just go out and buy the keyboard version with 7 RME's. Otherwise, you'll be waiting forever for an all in one solution. Meanwhile, stop talking nonsense about Studio Electronics, the only current manufacturers of polyphonic AND discrete analog synthesizers.

Amos
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Post by Amos » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:46 pm

Array wrote:[Do you really think that, realistically, a polyphonic synth built with the same high standards as the voyager could ever be marketed? Have you ever SEEN the insides of a Voyager? A polyphonic version would literally weigh 100kg and cost as much as a house.
Hmmm... I am thinking it could be done. It would be difficult in keyboard form, but I could easily envision a 3- to 5-rackspace box containing 6 to 8 Voyager analog boards and a new poly-capable digital board to control them; and a separate remote programmer holding all the knobs and switches. And/or allow it to be programmed entirely from a computer.

However, I can't see it being particularly affordable, even in the above scenario. I still want to see such a thing happen, really I do.

Array
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Post by Array » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:12 pm

Amos wrote:
Array wrote:[Do you really think that, realistically, a polyphonic synth built with the same high standards as the voyager could ever be marketed? Have you ever SEEN the insides of a Voyager? A polyphonic version would literally weigh 100kg and cost as much as a house.
Hmmm... I am thinking it could be done. It would be difficult in keyboard form, but I could easily envision a 3- to 5-rackspace box containing 6 to 8 Voyager analog boards and a new poly-capable digital board to control them; and a separate remote programmer holding all the knobs and switches. And/or allow it to be programmed entirely from a computer.

However, I can't see it being particularly affordable, even in the above scenario. I still want to see such a thing happen, really I do.
Well yeah, the Yamaha CS-80 was a fully discrete synth, and it weighed around 100kg for 8 voices. I think that such an endeavor would put Moog Music out of business.

Array
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Post by Array » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:51 pm

Actually no. A 5u rack would be FAR too small for a polyphonic Voyager.The Voyager keyboard itself is packed to capacity with circuitry, and im sure that the RME is as well.

Just check out these photos (thanks QWave):

http://www.till-kopper.de/voyager.html

In contrast, here is an inside look at the Andromeda, an IC based synth:

http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/a6_inside/

Amos
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Post by Amos » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:23 pm

Array wrote: Well yeah, the Yamaha CS-80 was a fully discrete synth, and it weighed around 100kg for 8 voices. I think that such an endeavor would put Moog Music out of business.
Oh well, ya can't blame a guy for wishful thinking. If Moog's business expands at the rate it seems to be heading, then maybe there will be enough R&D overhead to investigate the poly-synth concept. However, I've been told before that it was the Memorymoog that basically toppled the previous incarnation of Moog Music, and I know Dr. Moog has categorically refused to consider a new polyphonic analog synth in past interviews. I'm convinced though that it must be possible to come up with a (mostly) discrete polyphonic analog, that is up to Moog standards, for less than the cost of a new Harley-Davidson... somehow. I'm going to keep right on wishing and hoping.

re: the 5U enclosure... I was picturing a stack of analog boards one right atop the other, with flow-through cooling if needed. That would significantly reduce the space needed, as would having a separate controller instead of a full control panel on the front surface. It may still be an unworkable concept, but that is how it went together in my mind.

-Amos

Array
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Post by Array » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:35 pm

Amos wrote:
Array wrote: Well yeah, the Yamaha CS-80 was a fully discrete synth, and it weighed around 100kg for 8 voices. I think that such an endeavor would put Moog Music out of business.
Oh well, ya can't blame a guy for wishful thinking. If Moog's business expands at the rate it seems to be heading, then maybe there will be enough R&D overhead to investigate the poly-synth concept. However, I've been told before that it was the Memorymoog that basically toppled the previous incarnation of Moog Music, and I know Dr. Moog has categorically refused to consider a new polyphonic analog synth in past interviews. I'm convinced though that it must be possible to come up with a (mostly) discrete polyphonic analog, that is up to Moog standards, for less than the cost of a new Harley-Davidson... somehow. I'm going to keep right on wishing and hoping.

re: the 5U enclosure... I was picturing a stack of analog boards one right atop the other, with flow-through cooling if needed. That would significantly reduce the space needed, as would having a separate controller instead of a full control panel on the front surface. It may still be an unworkable concept, but that is how it went together in my mind.

-Amos
I think that a room full of RME's WOULD look pretty sexy though! :)

If only $$$ wasnt an issue. :(

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MC
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Post by MC » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:49 pm

I'm an EE and have studied power engineering. Central to a good electronic design is heat dissipation. An analog synth board generates heat and if that heat is allowed to accumulate then the VCO tuning and other foibles will put that synth voice out of whack.

If you stack multiple PC boards to build a polyphonic Voyager, you have to arrange them so that the heat does not accumulate. We all know that heat rises. Stacking pc boards sandwich style will accumulate heat between the boards - worst thing to do.

SCI tried this in their first polysynth, the single manual Prophet-10 (not the later dual manual version) which had two five-voice synth PC board sandwiched on each other. Those P10s have serious tuning problems. They made five P10s before they concluded that the heat problem could not be conquered. There was no other way to arrange those huge PC boards inside the enclosure. So they reduced the design to a single five voice PC board, the tuning was better, and it became the Prophet-5.

The correct way is to stand the voice boards on end forcing the heat to rise between layers. That way the heat dissipates evenly and naturally with no accumulation. Octave Plateau got it right - the voice cards in their Voyetra-eight rack polysynth are stacked on end. The Oberheim OBMx did this too.

Amos
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Post by Amos » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:56 pm

Thanks for the input, MC!

The Voyager analog board is only about 8" deep, so it might still be possible to enclose a vertical array of these puppies inside a rackable box of reasonable dimensions. Getting Moog to do such a thing, on the other hand...

Maybe it could be done in baby steps... say, a 4-voice "expander" box for Voyager/RME owners... then use that technology (multi-board analog array + new digital architecture to address multi analog boards from one digi board) as a platform for a standalone full polysynth. Farfetched? sure. Attainable? Maybe one day.

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Post Subject

Post by LWG » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:07 pm

Hello,

The Voyetra Eight and OB-MX illustrate that the poly is indeed doable. Cost effective? I'm not sure.
The OB-MX was a bit more sizeable, as it had a full programming interface on it's panel. Buchla also managed to deploy two voices on each card.
Octave saved a bit of real estate on the Voyetra by scaling back the programming interface and making only the most often used parameters available for edit. In addition though, the instrument was still fully programmable via the one-voice Voyetra One. All of the One's parameters were available for edit from the panel. The Evolver was not the first synth to utilize this technique.
A similar approach could be used with a poly version Vger, keeping costs down by scaling back the programming interface and allowing the Voyager
monosynth and/or an editor to function as the programming interface.
Roland's MKS-80 also featured a programming interface as a separate unit.
These are just ideas, but they just illustrate that they have been done before.
Finally, although I'm not crazy about the disassembled Minis, I do give
credit to Studio Electronics for having continued to build programmable analog synths during a time where they were no longer fashionable. In addition, in the case of the Omega 8, its a probuct that they offer in multiple configurations. Not many manufacturers are willing to do that anymore.


Regards,


LWG

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goldphinga
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Post by goldphinga » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:34 pm

array

moog can market and build a polyphonic synth of the voyagers quality,bob moog already stated that in several interviews.

there is no way it would cost as much as a house.

i have seen inside the voyager

i only stated my opinion,whereas you seem determined to enforce yours
Moog Gear: Voyager AE,LP Stage 2+CV outs (Blue LED's/Wheels, MF104SD, MF101 Filter, MF103 Phaser, Source, Memorymoog+, Minitaur.

Array
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Post by Array » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:55 pm

goldphinga wrote: moog can market and build a polyphonic synth of the voyagers quality,bob moog already stated that in several interviews.
So then the only reason for that we dont have said synth is because Dr. Moog is a grumpy old meany and that he likes to deprive musicians of high quality musical instruments? There has to be a good reason why this wondersynth isnt on the market.

Which brings us to the next point....
goldphinga wrote: there is no way it would cost as much as a house.
Not literally, no. It would cost a LOT though. So much, in fact, that it would be prohibitively expensive and impossible to sell. Did you know that the original Moog Modular systems DID cost as much as a house back in the 1960's ($10,000)? Did you also know that the original MiniMoog used to cost as much as a car ($1,000)? The Moog salesmen actually had to sell loans to go along with the Mini. I dont think that the people who run the current incarnation of Moog Music would be too willing to go back to that business model.
goldphinga wrote: i have seen inside the voyager
Look again, and look at all of those discrete components. How many voices of polyphony would you want a polyphonic MiniMoog to have? 8? 16? How much do you think is an acceptable weight for a modern electronic keyboard instrument?
goldphinga wrote: i only stated my opinion,whereas you seem determined to enforce yours
Calling Studio Electronics gear "bleep", and dismissing it outright, seems pretty forceful to me. I am just stating facts here.

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