MP201 + ringmod = vca?

[ColorForm2113]

so i know that the ringmod can be used as a crude vca with and envelope put into the carrier in. but now the mp has adsr...has anyone plugged that into the carrier in? what were your findings? im interested to see if it works better as a vca now

[DontBelievetheHype]

Yep, works well- I just started using it to make percussion with the CP251 noise, 101, 102, MP201 envelope, etc... works great, fast response- Exciting new stuff for me

[ColorForm2113]

That's fantastic! How are you triggering the adsr? Is it cycling kinda like an lfo or do have an external source triggering it?

[DontBelievetheHype]

Im generally using it in 'one shot' mode and using either a Footswitch or Treadle(expression) to trigger-- when editing I prefer to use the Treadle so I can make adjustments and trigger the Envelope while still inside the Edit screen- while in the Edit screen, the Footswitches shuffle through the menu regardless. An external MIDI controller can be used to trigger as well. The treadle has a 'threshold' setting which sets the range of the sweep before triggering, so it can be set to trigger as soon as it leaves the 'Heel down' position, in the middle of the sweep, or where ever in the sweep you'd like. The Triggers can be Latching or Unlatching and can be a One-Shot or a Loop (like LFO).

The MP201 is great, its turned my pedalboard into a full fledged (albeit simple) synth

[ColorForm2113]

If you can I would like to see or hear a demo of that setup

[DontBelievetheHype]

My setup is evolving significantly and I don't have a camera, but some time in the near future I'll get some kind of demo up.

An update on the Ringmod as VCA-- I finally plugged a MIDI keyboard into the MP-201 and got my pedalboard going as a monosynth. In the short time I've experimented with it now, Ive found the best results from using a Gate signal and sending it to the CP-251's attenuator and/or lag processor. Ive only spent a few minutes with the EG dialing in envelopes for the keyboard, and while it works I'm noticing some minor artifacts on the attack that are not present with a simple attenuated Gate, though I think there should be some work around or different numerical values that should work a little better. In short envelopes for percussion I haven't noticed these artifacts.

All in all, this is friggin' awesome. With only a few cable changes I can go from my bass guitar to MIDI control over my pedalboard synth. Unfortunately the Ringmod is relegated to VCA use, because it sounds awesome as an oscillator, but I still have 2 Freqbox's and a Lowpass in parallel loops at the beginning of my chain so lots to play with. The MP201's conversion seems to be great as there is no noticeable lag or anything when using the MIDI controller.. Im using the CP251 to multiply the pitch-CV and control multiple osc's with a single MP CV, though I haven't checked things with a tuner or very far range so this might not be accurate enough... Im using a Novation X-Station as the MIDI controller-- it makes my pedalboard sound like a super fat version of its built in synth and the key tracking and feel and whatnot are the same... the MP201 is pretty goddamn cool.


*edit*
I just played around with it a bit longer and recorded while playing the freqbox's, lowpass filter, and ringmod separate and combo's, and processed through a couple other effects here and there. I just tuned quickly by ear to a slightly detuned but pleasant tone when layering oscillators. I started with the EG for the Ringmod, and then changed to the Gate+cp251's attenuator&lag processor so you can hear the response of that as well. I'm not a keyboard player and my setup is on the ground, so you're just going to literally hear noodling with one hand on the keyboard while turning knobs on the floor with the other hand. I'll upload it in a bit and post so you can get an idea of the Ringmod's VCA response and whatnot. *Double edit* Actually, I'll save the trouble of cutting up/converting/uploading/etc a clip of noodling, though if there's any interest I can make a quick one with a few different VCA settings or something- until then, trust me when I say it sounds great and fun to play with. :p

[DontBelievetheHype]

I remember reading in a thread recently that someone found if they used a dummy plug into the Carrier In, that they could control the Ringmod like a VCA with negative voltage into some other input iirc.. Well I just noticed that using the CP251's attenuator and pushing the MP201's gate all the way into the negative gives it equal performance as +2.5v or so, but with more 'headroom' before volume drop off. Im going to try using the envelopes in bi-polar mode and I have a feeling that this might account for the mild artifacts I noticed when using the EG instead of a Gate(attenuated&lag proccessed at CP).

[Amos]

of course I'm curious about the artifacts you're describing, as there shouldn't be any, ideally... but also I am posting to mention that the EG envelopes are 0V to +5V regardless of whether the CV Scale is set to Unipolar or Bipolar. Pitch CV on the other hand is affected by CV Scale and will output negative voltage for pitches below the Root Note on a Midi2CV channel, if the unit is in Bipolar mode.

Cheers,

Amos

[psound74]

Question: if you patch ch 1 (lfo tri or square) of an MP-201 into the audio in of an mf-102 and ch 2 (expression mode) into the carrier in of the '102, can you use the '201 pedal to (quad mono) change lfo speed on ch 1, and ten switch to ch 2 to adjust "lfo amount"?

Or would you need a dedicated VCA?

I'm trying to get mod wheel-like control of both lfo speed and amount out of my MP-201.

Thanks!

Patrick

[DontBelievetheHype]

psound: I'm not quite understanding the question; if the MP201 is patched into the 'audio in', you wouldn't be able to route the audio or your oscillators and whatever else into it for use as a VCA; when using the Ringmod as VCA, you must send audio to its Audio In, and send the Gate/Env to the 'Carrier In' to control the volume attenuation; if you use 'Expression' into the 'Carrier In', it is essentially turned into a volume pedal, attenuating the volume of 'Audio In''s input signal.

What I've described in this thread is my only experience with a VCA, so I apologize if I'm not following you correctly.

of course I'm curious about the artifacts you're describing, as there shouldn't be any, ideally... but also I am posting to mention that the EG envelopes are 0V to +5V regardless of whether the CV Scale is set to Unipolar or Bipolar. Pitch CV on the other hand is affected by CV Scale and will output negative voltage for pitches below the Root Note on a Midi2CV channel, if the unit is in Bipolar mode.

Cheers,

Amos

Ah this makes sense, I was wondering why there didn't seem to be any change in the VCA operation when changing polar-modes.

Ultimately I've found that the CP251's attenuator's are the key to this operation; by trimming the CV down to about -2.5v, the RingmodVCA now closes/sits in complete silence and no longer leaking a little volume. This also removes some artifacts (with no other changes made), and they can be further removed (completely in many cases) with the CP251's lag processor, or simply adjusting the on board in the MP's env generator a bit (slightly slower attack for instance). Fwiw, these artifacts are the same as reported by made by many DSI owners, and can be heard on the DSI pages Mopho soundclips.

[nivek_yoccm]

hi,

I'm trying to use the MP-201 into the ring mod's carrier via an MP201's expression channel. . . modulator mix is set at 10. Pretty much regardless of how I've tried to set the heel/toe voltages so far, I get varying volumes at heel and toe but the greatest volume increase in the middle of the range. . . I'm just trying to get a simple no volume to full volume sweep. In fact, currently, the highest volumes seem decently higher than the bypass levels. . . ) Any advice is very appreciated.

Thanks,

Kevin

[nivek_yoccm]

so I got a simple volume pedal with these settings: MP-201 heel at 0, toe at around 242 (to achieve bypass levels at full on) into Moogerfooger Ring Mod carrier in with Mix knob at full

if anyone can explain two things, I'd very much appreicate it:
1) why are these settings working?
2) is there a way to get closer to zero at the heel position? a nearer to zero amplitude carrier? I'm still getting a decent signal going thru with the above settings when the heel is at zero

thanks much funkatarians,

Kevin

[DontBelievetheHype]

The Ringmods VCA/volume pedal functionality seems to operate at a -2.5v to +2.5v range (instead of the standard 0 to +5v of other inputs), so if in Unipolar mode you'll still only be giving it 0v when the Heel is down.

When using expression mode, with the MP201 set to unipolar (0/+5v), the full volume is met at the halfway mark as you noticed (about 2048 at toe down) and then goes back to silent at toe down so it works more like a manual tremolo, and there is still a little volume leaking through when the heel is all the way down at 0v. If you have a CP251, you can use the Unipolar expression mode with the full 0 to 5v, by using the CP251's attenuator and setting it to -2.5v.

I haven't tried this, but I think you can achieve the same result using only the MP201:

*set the MP201 to Bipolar mode in the global options menu, so it is now operating in a -5v to +5v range from heel to toe.
*then in expression mode, try adding about 25% to the Heel-down value (bring it up from 0 to about 1024), and do the same to the Toe-down value (bring it down from 4095 to about 3070).
*doing this should have the expression sweep operating at about -2.5v and complete silence when the Heel is down, and about +2.5v and full volume when the Toe is down.

Let me know if this works out for you (i really think it should), or if I get around to it first I'll update with my results.

[nivek_yoccm]

thanks!

Here's what I've found so far with it set up BiPolar:
1) I got silence to unity with heel to toe settings of 2044 to 2148. Beyond 2148 became further amplification--which is nice actually: A volume pedal with programmable amounts of boost at full/toe. (Goodbye for now, Ernie Ball!)
2) In BiPolar, there is a small digital hum introduced in my current setup. This setup is the one I use for preparing my rig: It's a dry signal coming back out of my laptop via interface through re-amp box. So, that explains the digital hum. . . but is there more potential for other noise in BiPolar?
3) Changing to BiPolar has effects on other pedals with CV ins (as expected). So, while I'm just starting to adapt to BiPolar in my other presets/CV outs, I appreciate any advice. I also run the Moog Delay, so I've changed the settings on those CV outs from 0, 4095 (heel, toe) to 2042, 4095. This seems to be the same scale as as 0, 4095 in UniPolar, right?

thanks again! between running the 'Foogers and the MIDI box I have hooked up, this is easily one of the coolest pieces of gear I've ever used, maybe THE coolest . . . pretty psyched here--I need to chillout,

Kevin