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synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

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synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby Unfiltered » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:21 am

Sounds like an oberheim, anybody know?
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby MC » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:28 am

Yamaha GX-1

Impossible to find physically huge and heavy three manual analog synth disguised as an "Electone" organ. Only 70 made, most are in Japan. Predecessor to the CS-80/60/50 polysynths.
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby ARP » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:27 am

If i may also add.. it sounded great !
"Although they heard the music..they didn't understand the tune"
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby Sweep » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:55 am

The one used on In Through the Out Door belonged to Benny Andersson of ABBA and was in Polar Studios when Led Zeppelin recorded there. John Paul Jones soon after got his own.

I don't know what happened to the Led Zep one, but the Benny Andersson one was being refurbished a little while ago. The guy doing the work told me it still has the patches set up by both Benny Andersson and John Paul Jones.

The Electone organ aspect was curious, as MC mentioned. I think Yamaha got their organ division to design polysynths. As I recall there are a couple of slightly different case designs for the GX-1, one of them labelled more as an organ than the other (there are also two colours, black, and white). I believe the EX-1 and EX-2 also use GX-1 technology.

A guy called Flametop Fred on another forum raised the point that several Yamaha organs used their synth technology. That seems to be true but I think it's less exciting than it seems. A few people were hoping to get a cheap CS80 equivalent that way, including me. It is true that you can be lucky enough to get a good sounding instrument for very little money that way, and Flametop Fred posted some very nice sounding Electone demos on YouTube, but the GX-1, CS80 and so forth scored because of their playability rather than just their sound.

Incidentally the solo parts on Wendy Carlos' performance of the Fifth Brandenberg are an Electone E-5, which did things the Moog Modular wasn't at that time capable of.

There's a story on the net of a guy who bought a very cheap GX-1 from an organ teacher who'd acquired it after a Yamaha demo concert. Maybe the only time that will happen, but you never know.
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby Brian G » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:45 am

There was an article years ago that Keith Emerson bought John Paul Jones GX-1 in the early mid 80’s when his original GX1 was failing. I’m not sure which one he toured with Emerson Lake and Powel but whichever one came back from that tour in barely playable condition. In the late 80’s early 90’s he sold a lot of gear off including the GX1’s . Hans Zimmer bought one of them who then had it fully restored.

From what I remember the EX-1 was missing the pitch ribbon and a few other features but other than that was pretty much the same.
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby Unfiltered » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:54 am

Thanks for the reply, all I could find was that he played "synthesizer" on that track. There is a live video of Kashmir with him playing it, I bet it was fun to tour with that monster. Why didn't he just get a CS, or an oberheim? Or better yet, since it was just one or two patches, get a mellotron sample, since he used that anyway. The studio version of all my love, I have to admit, sounds very organic , which was a rarity for rock synths of the day, when most guys were still trying to feel out what patches worked.
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby MC » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:14 am

The CS didn't appear until 1978. Oberheim at that time didn't have the modulation capacilities and touch sensitivity of the GX-1.
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby LWG » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:24 am

Hello,

The CS-series bear little resemblance the the GX-1.
The GX-1 synths that Yamaha built were all a series of prototypes and were never an
actual "production" instrument. They used discrete modules and a diode filter.
After they were built, the only synthesizers that used any of the GX modules
were the SY-1 and SY-2 preset synths.

The CS series use ic-based vcos, vcfs, and vcas. The filter is an ota-type, done
on a chip, and can sound similar to the old ARP/Oberheim ones, parameter ranges
just being slightly more "dialed back", as they're more tightly trimmed.

Regards,

-L
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby bhrama » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:11 am

Not to derail this thread, but does anyone know the synth/organ JPJ used on the song "No Quarter"? I've always loved that wobbly, orchestral bell-like sound in the beginning.
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby ARP » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:13 pm

The No Quarter sound is from a phase shifter Rhodes 88 electric piano.
"Although they heard the music..they didn't understand the tune"
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby mikael488 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:46 pm

On the studio version of "No Quarter" JP Jones ran the audio signal of the Hohner electra-piano through the EMS VCS3, and modulated
the filter with a sine-wave LFO.
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby teprngr » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:41 am

Well, when it comes to things like this I am sure that it is not an easy find to be made. Hearing the instrument out would be hard but it would be possible if you had watched any live performances from him that could help you identify the things that you are looking for. I am sure that he had done a few concerts or musical and anything that is related to the piece of music that you are looking for.
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby FlametopFred » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:52 pm

I've done a lot of research on this.

Yamaha got a lot of things right. I believe that and the end of the 1960's and early 1970's nobody was quite sure what was going to happen with keyboards. Especially regarding home-organs, which was a profitable market.

So Yamaha hedged their bet, quite wisely, and used the GX-1 as a testbed flagship platform. It would combine the best of what organs could do and the best of what synthesizers could do.

The odd thing is that it's only now, 40 years later, that we're getting back to that cohesive kind of instrument.

The GX-1 design incorporated a lot of solutions to problems. This would pay off in bucket loads of money earned by Yamaha when the brought out the DX-7 (which is a design descendant of the the GX-1 circuitry).

The E-70 and CS-80 are the two branches, the two siblings from the GX-1 parental unit.

The E-70 and CS-80 are based on the same "sonic engine". I have had both. I originally owned two CS-80s and then owned the E-70 and E-75.

The E-70 is totally playable in a different way from the CS-80. The CS-80 had velocity and aftertouch. The E-70 has a different kind of aftertouch. The CS-80 is a variable synthesizer. The E-70 is a preset synthesizer with control over the filter and modulation.

The E-70 also has onboard arpeggiator and a separate bass synth built in. And drum machine.

I have several dreams:
- install a CS-80 into the upper keyboard of an E-70
- or keep the E-70 stock and just put a CS-80 on top of the E-70 console
- marry Heather Graham

The main point though is to get out there and try these things out. Electones are very overlooked. Especially those that have analogue type sounds and control.

The main thing is these are also a lot of fun to play.
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby FlametopFred » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:56 pm

The other point on this is that in a way, MIDI kind of destroyed a lot of progress that was being made. I can see what happened and why, but MIDI was a step backwards.

The Electone console (the E-70) had a cohesive presentation of very playable features: synth sounds, drum machine, bass synth, arpeggiator, effects. It all worked and is very fun to play.

MIDI should have solve a lot of problems - - but took 20 years to become as cohesive as the E-70 console.
MIDI was great, don't get me wrong . . .but it was very (overly) technical instead of just being fun. MIDI was a headache.

But I love it all.

John Paul Jones played GX-1 on "All My Love"
Keith Emerson lost his first GX-1 when a tractor drove through his studio.
John Paul Jones then sold his GX to Keith.

Benny's (ABBA) GX went to Roth Handle in Sweden - where he has a great studio.
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Re: synth on "all my love" Zeppelin?

Postby FlametopFred » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:58 pm

Oh yeah - the E-70 also has a great Hammond Organ clone sound, maybe the original, best Hammond clone sound.

So in addition to the great CS-80 like tones and sounds, you have "Hammond" sounds on board, with a built-in rotating speaker and aux outputs to go into a mixer.

For $150 bucks you can't really beat all that.

The fun is priceless.
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